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Banjo

Burping a BrewArt keg

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Banjo    66

So conditioning at ambient Sunshine Coast temperatures has been a bit detrimental to a few bottles in the last couple of weeks, they have been getting very carbonated and some bottles have even deformed from all the extra pressure they have been under.  I tried loading up a keg into my BrewFlo this morning and even these kegs might be having the same expanding trouble.  It has expanded so much that it won't actually fit in the BrewFlo ?.  This keg was right up against the wall in the laundry which might not have been the best idea, but the keg next to it seems fine so I have swapped them over for now.

I am looking for recommendations from others on how you might burp these kegs.  I didn't think of it until I was driving to work.  My plan tonight is to disconnect the air from the chilled good keg and use the air line connector elbow joint thingy and just stick it into the air line on the affected keg for a few seconds to relieve pressure.  How does that sound?  I figure it will be just like when you disconnect an empty keg and all the air rushes out, hopefully the keg isn't permanently stretched too badly.

20170203_070100.jpg

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Hi Banjo,

Wow! What type of brew is in this keg?

You might find that if you pre-chill the keg in a fridge it contracts slightly in volume and you are able to fit it in the BrewFlo. If it doesn't, then you can release some fluid by first unscrewing the black air valve and waiting for all the air stop hissing out, then removing the black collar. You will want to do this in the back yard or at least in the sink, as we suspect some beer will burst out due to the intense pressure.

Did you perhaps double prime this keg and double hop the other? Is this the only keg you have like this?

Cheers,
The BrewArt Team

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Banjo    66

Hey BrewArt Team! ?

The beer is a spin off of the Coopers Helga Cool Kolsch, a Hallertau Cool Kolsch.  I mixed up the ingredients in my craft fermenter and split the wort between the craft and the droid as part of a temperature control experiment.  Since it wasn't a brewprint I primed with the kegs with 25g dextrose each keg (5g/L) dissolved in a small amount of just boiled water.

I will give your suggestion a go this evening, and this is the only keg that seems a big on the large side.  The good keg I swapped it with is the other half of the Kolsch.

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25g dextrose would have been a bit too much, so your beer has over-carbonated, hence the distortion. Naturally we recommend using our primers in the future, even with custom brews, as they contain the correct amount of sugar for each keg.

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Banjo    66

Hmmm, I had read somewhere that when priming (thought probably a normal keg) with dextrose you would use anywhere from 4-6g/L for moderate carbonation.  I will reduce this amount for any future kegs I try this with.

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Banjo    66
9 hours ago, BrewArt Team said:

we suspect some beer will burst out due to the intense pressure.

WOW! I wish I filmed that.  Instead of unscrewing the black air valve I figured it wouldn't do any harm to quickly burp using the elbow joint I mentioned earlier.  I did take your advice about going outside luckily.

What happened was a short whoosh noise as the air initially esacaped, then it abruptly stopped. ? I thought 'oh, that isn't normal'.  Then came a pop noise, then if you imagine a fire extinguisher that is shooting out beer foam for a good 5 metres sprayed all through the garden and gave one of the dogs a small rinse ?.  After a while it slowed down so I removed the elbow joint and will try unscrewing the valve and removing the cap to ensure all the pressure is out and see what beer is left.

The other half is in the BrewFlo and I poured my first glass and it is perfect carbonation, it had the same priming dose.  That's home brew for you! ?

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Banjo    66

I was also going to burp my other remaining keg that is still in the laundry just to be safe.  But that one I remember had the primer pack in it.

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Banjo    66

I went to load my Original Pilsner brewprint keg into the Flo today and I have the same issue again, although not as bad, it still doesn't fit in the BrewFlo.  This one was primed using the included primer.  I think the problem I am having is that these kegs (and some of my bottles too) are being conditioned at too high a temperature which is causing a greater amount of pressure inside the keg.  I have loaded my keg into the fridge to see if the pressure comes down at all with a drop in temperature.  If not, I should be able to dispense into a jug using just the beer line by itself, then pour into a glass until the pressure comes down enough to fit in the Flo again.

2 kegs and a heap of PET bottles all out of shape now.  The bottles were primed with carb drops to the recommended amount.  I might need to get a conditioning fridge next summer to stop this happening again!

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Patty    24

I lives in redcliffe QLD, my kegs where priming at avg 30 degrees but got myself a fridge just for priming.

I did one in the fridge a few days early before the 2 weeks was up and it is quite sweet and a little green. So hopefully the next kegs is all good.

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On ‎3‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 9:36 AM, Banjo said:

So conditioning at ambient Sunshine Coast temperatures has been a bit detrimental to a few bottles in the last couple of weeks, they have been getting very carbonated and some bottles have even deformed from all the extra pressure they have been under.  I tried loading up a keg into my BrewFlo this morning and even these kegs might be having the same expanding trouble.  It has expanded so much that it won't actually fit in the BrewFlo 1f631.png.  This keg was right up against the wall in the laundry which might not have been the best idea, but the keg next to it seems fine so I have swapped them over for now.

I am looking for recommendations from others on how you might burp these kegs.  I didn't think of it until I was driving to work.  My plan tonight is to disconnect the air from the chilled good keg and use the air line connector elbow joint thingy and just stick it into the air line on the affected keg for a few seconds to relieve pressure.  How does that sound?  I figure it will be just like when you disconnect an empty keg and all the air rushes out, hopefully the keg isn't permanently stretched too badly.

20170203_070100.jpg

 same happened to me warm keg would not fit. I got the elbow connector from a beer line and purged some beer using carbonation pressure and put the keg in the fridge. After cooling it just fit the brewflow

However the keg is distorted and so is the lid so I had to dispose the keg and am using the valves from the lid as spares.

 

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Banjo    66

The temperature in the laundry would be easily around 28-30 during the day at the moment.  And that's the coolest part of the house.  Because I had so many conditioning some were also in the hallway cupboard which is warmer.

Pat - what temperature do you have your priming fridge set to? 18?

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On 09/02/2017 at 4:55 PM, Banjo said:

The temperature in the laundry would be easily around 28-30 during the day at the moment.  And that's the coolest part of the house.  Because I had so many conditioning some were also in the hallway cupboard which is warmer.

Pat - what temperature do you have your priming fridge set to? 18?

I'm on the Goldy so I use the wine fridge set to 18C but it is actually around 20C if I put a thermometer in there.

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Big Pop    92

On Tuesday morning I discovered that my second keg of Thomas Coopers Celeb Ale (TCCA) had beer between the keg liner and the plastic keg.  This keg had been conditioning for 8 weeks and was stored within acceptable temp limits at a constant ambient temp of between 22-25 degrees since mid January.  Being my favoured brew thus far I was just a tad concerned.  I also discovered that it would not fit in the BrewFlo in much the same way as BrewArtist Banjo photographed and posted on 3Feb17 (see above).  Placed what seemed like a ticking Improvised Explosive (Beer) Device (IEBD) in the fridge and contacted The BrewArt Team for advice.

The main differences between Banjo's experience and this one were that this brew was a stock standard brewprint, brewed, primed and kegged strictly according to the book.  The first keg was tapped at 4 weeks and was perfect.

Noting the BrewArt Team's advice to Banjo on 3Feb17 and given the obvious internal keg pressure I was just a bit  uncomfortable in unscrewing the black valve, waiting for the expelled air to stop and then removing the black collar.  Twenty four hours later the chilled keg would still not fit in the BrewFlo.  So off to the garden armed with some sophisticated high tech equipment (3mm diameter bamboo meat skewer) to disarm my IEBD.

By gently depressing the black valve poppet compressed air was released, however, this only releases the air trapped between the keg liner and the plastic keg.  Whilst I considered that this was a necessary first step it had little or no impact on restoring the shape of the distended IEBD.   Next was the same treatment on the orange valve poppet with the expected impressive, but controlled, geyser of my favourite beer into the garden.  After some clean up it was back to the BrewFlo for another fitting.  Did not quite make it but sufficient to connect the lines and fire it up with the lid open.  Poured a few glasses of almost 100% pure froth which was only to be expected.  The upside was that I managed to salvage a few small mouthfuls - result, 'bloody perfect'. So it's back in the fridge and is fast tracked for consumption, albeit, with the BrewFlo open lid if necessary.

Spoke to Iain, BrewArt Team who thought that the problem may have resulted from a perforated keg liner and subsequent infection.  However, at this stage the beer passes the taste test with no obvious signs of infection.  It was basically left at that, except that Iain will be shipping a replacement keg, for which I am grateful.

Up to this point I had not considered the possibility of a perforated keg liner.  So I double checked all remaining kegs on my shelf which now brings me to chapter 2 - THE PERFORATED KEG LINER.  If I still have your interest stay tuned.

The moral to chapter one is regularly check your shelf kegs.  Do not do what I have been doing and that it storing them back in their original shipping cartons and assuming that they are happily conditioning themselves for my future enjoyment.

 

 

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Banjo    66

1 keg was a non-brewprint and 1 keg was a brewprint with included primer (Original Pilsner freebie from the days of christmas giveaways on facebook).

I noticed the keg liner behaving strangely in both of these kegs, the kegs are ruined in that they don't fit the brewflo at all anymore so I instead put them in the fridge and using just the beer line I was able to dispense nearly the whole thing using internal pressure alone, oddly without much foam at all.  There was a little bit of beer between the liner and the keg also though as the keg emptied the liner did not appear to deflate, it stayed right where it was still pressed against the wall and looked full but weighed next to nothing.  To remove the line from the keg I had to poke it a few times with a wooden skewer before it would deflate and I could get it to budge.   Looks like they have an internal lining as a separate layer under that silver outer coat.  So the air was going between the silver shell and the internal bag when dispensing.  A perforated liner could have been the culprit.  Especially since the beer wasn't overly foamy after the first release of pressure.

I haven't kegged since, I figured storage temps were not on my side, so I have been just bottling while waiting to see what other peoples experiences have been like.

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Banjo    66

I have been keeping my eye on a certain new PET fermenter that is also capable of being used as a keg.  As it is a PET fermenter/keg that uses CO2 pressure, either during natural carbonation or a gas supply, I immediately thought about my expanding PET keg issues from excess carbonation.  I watched a video on youtube which showed how the manufacturer recommends using a spunding valve to regulate the amount of CO2 that is pressurising the fermenter/keg during the natural carbonation process in order to get the perfect CO2 volume in your beer and I thought something like that would be great to stop the brewart kegs from getting deformed or breaking keg liners or even just being overcarbed when eventually dispensing.

Would one of these pressure relief valves be able to be used on a BrewArt keg?  How would it be possible to connect it to the BrewArt disconnects

Google Keg King adjustable pressure relief valve for an example of the valve I am taking about.

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Gibbo    105

I think you would have to drill your own hole, find the right combination of fittings to provide a seal (for the hole you just drilled) and allow for the valve to be fitted without fouling the operation of the Brewflo.

Thankfully, I haven't had this problem...yet. 

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