Droid to 10l keg fundamentals.. have I got it all wrong?

[Pommie]

Hi wise people of Brew Art knowledge, I need some basic guidance as I think I may be missing something obvious to others,

I'm a recent brewer and have the following set up.

1. Beer Droid

2. 2x 10l S/Steel kegs with Ball lock tapping heads

3. Fridge for kegs (with associated duotight ball lock disconnects)

4. Font tower directly above fridge through concrete bench.

5. 2x 2l kegs for hard plumbed sparkling (using Kegland kit but not really relevant here)

6. 6kg Regulated CO2 bottle, with individual regulators for each keg

So my point. I was watching the iKegger vids on kegging from the beer droid and have done the same thing. Have I got this all wrong? This was for the Coopers Pale brewprint.

1. Let Beerdroid do its thing and finish (EoF)

2. skip kegging mode and put the beer into storage mode (4deg)

3. sanitise the keg, then flush the solution out with CO2 and refrigerate.

4. After 24 hours, release the CO2 pressure and fill the keg from the droid (tap/silicone tube/ball lock)

5. connect in fridge, carbonate at about 20PSI and wait 2-3 days...

I think what I'm asking is am I supposed to be kegging at room temperature and storing the kegs (also at room temperature) for a while before refrigerating, and Do i carbonate at this point?

Please feel free to pull my process apart and I'm new to this, and I need your wisdom.

 

 

[Rob Courtney]

@Wazza_wantsbeer can you help on this as I don't do kegs

[Rob Courtney]

9 hours ago, Pommie said:

Hi wise people of Brew Art knowledge, I need some basic guidance as I think I may be missing something obvious to others,

I'm a recent brewer and have the following set up.

1. Beer Droid

2. 2x 10l S/Steel kegs with Ball lock tapping heads

3. Fridge for kegs (with associated duotight ball lock disconnects)

4. Font tower directly above fridge through concrete bench.

5. 2x 2l kegs for hard plumbed sparkling (using Kegland kit but not really relevant here)

6. 6kg Regulated CO2 bottle, with individual regulators for each keg

So my point. I was watching the iKegger vids on kegging from the beer droid and have done the same thing. Have I got this all wrong? This was for the Coopers Pale brewprint.

1. Let Beerdroid do its thing and finish (EoF)

2. skip kegging mode and put the beer into storage mode (4deg)

3. sanitise the keg, then flush the solution out with CO2 and refrigerate.

4. After 24 hours, release the CO2 pressure and fill the keg from the droid (tap/silicone tube/ball lock)

5. connect in fridge, carbonate at about 20PSI and wait 2-3 days...

I think what I'm asking is am I supposed to be kegging at room temperature and storing the kegs (also at room temperature) for a while before refrigerating, and Do i carbonate at this point?

Please feel free to pull my process apart and I'm new to this, and I need your wisdom.

 

 

Hey Pommie, welcome to the forum, I've tagged in one of the guys who uses kegs, he'll set you right

[Pommie]

thanks Rob

[Mike A]

Waiting for storage mode, I'd consider that optional as is the temp to keg at.  I've had no issues doing it warm or cold.

For me, when I keg to a stainless keg, I don't bother with chilling the empty unless it went to that automatically.  The thermal mass of the stainless is way way less compared to the fluid entering it.  Technically it will warm up a little but not enough to matter.

As you're using CO2 bottles and not doing natural ferment for carbonation you have a lot of flexibility at that last stage.  So long as you clean your kegs with both PBW, rince and then sanitise before use you're going to be good.  Just remember to disassemble your liquid post every few fills, you want to check your washers as well as give it a good clean.  Doubly so if you're storing your keg on it's side.

My method is the same as you've documented with some small adjustments.

1, I use a butterfly blow valve rather than blowing off all the CO2 or potentially letting O2 in via the bleed valve.  This helps you regulate the pressure as the keg fills and keeps a small amount of positive pressure in the keg to keep it O2 free. Several options for these but here's the one I use https://kegland.com.au/products/duotight-blowtie-2-spunding-valve-pressure-relief-with-integrated-gauge-0-15psi?_pos=7&_sid=5ac785822&_ss=r

2, I use StellaSan and use low pressure CO2 to push the StellaSan out, this flushes the fluid post thoroughly, i do this into a spare keg so I have left over StellaSan for use in flushing other things, as it's under CO2 and no light it lasts a good while so can be used to flush your droid after a cleaning cycle or anything else you need to use it for. just flush the head space by doing a few CO2 bleed off & fill cycles at a low-moderate pressure to completely make it mostly o2 free for the keg you're using for beer storage, i do this with a full keg either SellaSan stage or Beer stage so you're not replacing a whole keg volume of CO2.

3, With empty stellaSan'ed keg with just CO2 and I assume foam, i use the blow tie again on the gas post and fill using gravity from the keg using the ikegger adaptor kit for the droid tap to the liquid post.  I do this with a decent scale underneath so I know when I'm nearly full on the keg, just remember to zero with the empty keg before you start.  The rest is balancing the pressure adjustment on the blowtie as there's less pressure coming from the droid above it as it empties.

4, I don't immediately refrigerate, almost every beer I make i prefer for it to age a few weeks, and it seems to happen slightly faster at room temps, put it in a stable cool-ish place in my house until 1-2 weeks before I want to start using it. Just did this with the schwartzbier recipe, left it in keg for 5 months at "room temp" then put it in the fridge to cool for a few days and put it up to carbonation temp, no issues.

5, take the keg to full co2 carbonation pressure while i refrigerate, I prefer slow carbonation to the shake and bake kind, so the CO2 slowly gets into the beer takes 2ish weeks, i find i have to check a few times to be sure it's at the carbonation level i prefer, still working on my process for this bit.

 

Anyhow that's about the best tips I have. been reliable so far, other than when i had the empty clean keg full of co2 and hooked up the droid, gave the droid some early CO2 bubbles lol.  Don't do what I did

[Pommie]

1 hour ago, Mike A said:

Anyhow that's about the best tips I have. been reliable so far, other than when i had the empty clean keg full of co2 and hooked up the droid, gave the droid some early CO2 bubbles lol.  Don't do what I did

Thank you Mike, this is very helpful... and yes the very first brew... I managed to back pressure the droid with CO2 also

So I think I'll keg the brew, then store it in a cellar under my stairs (same temp all year really) for a few weeks before putting in the fridge.

Do you put the beer from the droid, then add CO2 then store, or leave the CO2 out until it hits the fridge, so you are aging but not carbonating?

[Mike A]

CO2 is your protection from O2 so i try to keep some level of CO2 at all times.  Oxadised beer is not good, not fun, and a waste of both time and money IMHO.  ideally if I followed the above, using co2 to push the stellasan solution out i'm a low pressure co2 in a empty keg,   IN theory CO2 is heavier, so as you displace the CO2 with the valve you're pushing residual O2 out of the keg as it fills with the beer.  This is the most reliable way i've managed so far. 

My last keg, i did forget that step and filled a keg with normal air.  So given that I now had a mostly full (not all the way to the top thanks to the scale) keg, I just did the CO2 purge trick, put medium pressure ~12Psi CO2 into the top of the keg, purge, rince repeat 4-5 times, then i have a mostly CO2 + Beer keg, that too worked fine, likely less CO2 than the other method too.  Either way you can end up with a low O2 method to fill the keg.

I just add 14-18Psi of CO2 when i fridge it to start carbonating, i need to recheck my tables as I generally need 14+Psi to make it notably carbonated for the temperature of my fridge.

[Pommie]

Thank you Mike. I do use the PBW and the stella san. I'm going to purchase a few more kegs for storage (plus the ball loks etc). I will re-read this a few times to digest, but it sounds like I'm not doing it all wrong, the first Coopers Pale tasted great so lets see. Its an exciting journey, I'm impressed by the droid, and I'm now quite happy I haven't wasted mega $$ on the fridge /keg set up.

As this is all new, my own experience and help from the forum makes this a good future hobby, and you get beer

[Mike A]

All good, glad it helps in some small way.
While you're shopping, look for "low o2 rings" for your keg, especially if a Corney style keg, they make a difference for long term storage in keeping the keg O2 free.

While you're at it grab a couple o-ring spares, always good to have on hand, you're better off replacing them sooner than finding a cracked o-ring in a beer you've spent a lot of time on.

Also you're not doing it all wrong, in fact your process will work fine, all i'm suggesting is tweaks and where you have some areas you can be more lax or less concerned about.

Enjoy this strange hobby & let us know how it all goes!

[Josh P]

Morning,

long time lurker first time poster. My Beerdroid should be arriving tomorrow. I bought one 9.5L corny keg (Kegland) to get me started as I haven’t kegged before. You guys have been so very helpful in getting educated prior to the first brew. However I have struggled to get a clear answer when it comes to filling kegs. 
 

like the original poster and as advised by the contributors of this post I will go through the above process. My concern is how do I know when to stop filling the keg to make sure it is below the gas post leaving headspace for carbonating? 
 

I like the idea of weighing it but what is the stop point on a 9.5L keg. Do we work off the 1kg = 1L? And if so where do we stop at to be below the gas post?  
 

Am I doing myself out of beer by buying 9.5L kegs as the Beerdroid brews 10L? 
 

I have read heaps on this forum and watch loads of videos but can’t get an answer to the above. 
 

thanks in advance. 

[Mike A]

Kitchen scales, ones that work out to 15+ kg.  Put the empty keg on the scales remember the number / zero the scales.  Most kegs have their weight written on side as well.

My method is zero the scales, and then stop when it gets to 9kg, you want to leave some head room, not right to the brim, this is used for carbonation, you need surface area for that.

The remaining 1L, the first time you open the tap, don't keg that first part, just too much yeast, use that as one of your dregs bottles & a quick taster, the last bit also forms another dregs bottle or two to see if the keg is ready to tap.

The other fill indicator, if you put it in storage mode, then you can see the condensation rise up the side as the brew will be cold enough.  Scales are more reliable though   Speed of fill I manage via the blow tie, turning that dial fills faster/slower control for you.

Here's the scales I use https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B07DQV938Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hope that helps.

[Josh P]

@Mike A great info thank you. 9kg it is. Those scales look like what I have been looking for. Do they stay on as you fill? so long as the weight is increasing?  
 

Blowtie on the gas port on the keg I am guessing? 
 

I will go get myself a few bottles with flip tops on them to fill as testers as you suggest. Are you priming these so they carb or leaving them flat and use purely as tasters? Sorry if that sounds like a silly/dumb question. It has been many years since I even looked at home brewing and then it was basic rubbish. 

Edited September 30 by Josh P

[Mike A]

1 hour ago, Josh P said:

Do they stay on as you fill? so long as the weight is increasing?  

Yep, just watch the numbers update as it keeps filling.  Glass top so be careful, but haven't had issues, and easy to wipe clean.

1 hour ago, Josh P said:

Blowtie on the gas port on the keg I am guessing? 

Correct, even an "empty" keg is still full of air/co2 so needs to come out, the blowtie gives you back pressure to control the rate of fill.  I prefer to try and start with the keg full of co2, less o2 the better for keeping beer longer term.

1 hour ago, Josh P said:

I will go get myself a few bottles with flip tops on them to fill as testers as you suggest. Are you priming these so they carb or leaving them flat and use purely as tasters?

I just use the plastic ones, they're simple enough to use & clean, but also have some ginger beer bottles as well and just cap them.  Do what you will, they're testers so doesn't matter too much if you have a bad washer on a flip top.  I use sugar drops to carbonate these, so they do taste a little different
As added detail, first half glass as a first extract from the droid, it's full of yeast, so while you're prepping the keg put it to the side, watch the yeast separate /drop to the bottom over time, taste the top to see what the "green" / young beer tastes like as it clears, throw the rest of that glass unless you want a meal and don't mind chewing beer.

As to old school brewing compared to the "appliance" brewing that we are privileged for with the droid, I've made brews that I prefer over commercial beers and things that aren't available at the bottle shop down the road.  My first try at a dark beer, I had family members saying it was about the best dark beer they've had, un-prompted praise at that.  This is genuinely great results and you get to tweak to your own taste.