Kegging/Priming 8L PET Kegs - BrewArt Primer & Sugar?

[Clayton Bolck]

Hi All,

I've been slowly pumping out some brews over the last month with my new BeerDroid and I'm experimenting with different methods of dispensing. I'm still fairly new to it all, but I've been doing an obsessive deep dive into brewing so have bought a lot of likely unnecessary purchases from kegland 😛

I've bought a few of the 8L Oxebar Kegs from Kegland which I find are good for a mix of making 3-4 bottles and the balance of the Brew to be kegged for my makeshift kegerator. (https://www.kegland.com.au/products/8l-pco38-pet-keg-with-ball-lock-disconnect-tapping-head-kit)

I've been force-carbing with sodastream canisters, but I'm burning through canisters really quickly (partly due to a leak in my gas manifold i'm still trying to rectify) but given I'm waiting at least 3-4 weeks for my brews to condition I've been thinking it may be beneficial to save the Co2 canisters for dispensing as opposed to carbing and use priming sugar with the kegs. I have a stockpile of the primer from buying brew prints which I'd like to utilise.

Based on my calculations, the primer being 30g, I should add a another 25g or so of sugar for an 8L keg for it to be reasonably carbonated for a typical IPA? 

I have a spunding value as well which I'm thinking I should chuck on the keg while carbonating. Should I keep it set at 10PSI or leave it higher at say 30PSI and then drop it down to 5-10PSI when ready to dispense?

Thank you for your assistance!! 

[Rob Courtney]

@Wazza_wantsbeer @J P

[Mike A]

Hopefully you got your answer a while back.  So partly just answering based on what I've been reading the last couple of weeks.

 

For the sugars/primers use this https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/.

As for priming, yes that's a decent way on saving gas, but considering you're already buying too much from kegland (I've started that journey as well) I'd recommend just getting their 2.6 or 6kg gas bottle, depending on what works for your kit & storage requirements.  I personally got the 2.6 for size.  Also keep in mind the trade-off is you'll have more yeast in the keg after as a result of priming sugar making cleaning a touch harder, but if you're on top of it right away it shouldn't be too bad.  If you leave it too long before cleaning, in the oxbar kegs, it may be a challenge to clean it out and I don't know how long stellar-clean can sit in plastic before affecting it.  I know beer lines the guideline is 18 minutes.

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/co2-gas-cylinders-2-6kg-full

From there, you have 2 choices.  Keep using the sodastream bottles and fill them from your larger bottle, OR do the initial fill from the larger bottle.

If just refilling sodastream bottles get the filling adaptor, freeze your SS bottles before you fill, turn the large bottle up-side-down (you want to fill with co2 liquid not gas) and then you're on the path to cheap gas https://www.kegland.com.au/products/sodastream-cylinder-filling-adaptor-refill-fill-station-with-bleed-valve?_pos=2&_sid=c60a4dcdc&_ss=r

At least that way you'll have cheap gas + still be portable with the SS bottles on the go or in the fridge as you see fit.  Do read the destructions beforehand as they have a few warnings in there worth reading https://www.kegland.com.au/cdn/shop/files/Sodastream_Cylinder_Instructions.pdf?v=12061292472492546852

If option 2, with the initial fill from the larger bottle, then you'll need a reg for the larger bottle as well. Note you need the type 30 fitting for CO2, not the other ones, apparently these are back in stock next week. https://www.kegland.com.au/products/mk4-regulator-type-30-co2-gas-dual-gauge-multi-gas-includes-8mm-x-ffl-duotight?_pos=33&_sid=b2a2fb569&_ss=r

 

[Clayton Bolck]

On 07/12/2023 at 11:40 AM, Mike A said:

Hopefully you got your answer a while back.  So partly just answering based on what I've been reading the last couple of weeks...

 

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your reply. I thought along the same lines and got a 2.6kg gas canister in the meantime and redid all of my gas lines and not having that problem any more! The filling adaptor is a great idea as well though, thank you - that way I can keep the SS for a future portable kegging endeavours! I've given up on the priming, i'll just keep them maybe for future beers that require a longer conditioning period.

 

Thanks for the advice!

[Mike A]

Glad it helped out in some small way.

pt2 tip, i found the esky “Arctic pro Beverage cooler” actually fits a couple keg sizes, plus should have room for the Sodastream bottle.  Got mine at bunnings, already tested with my 5L mini keg, fits easily. But in theory will fit the 9.5L ball lock / corney keg.

easky Inner:54.3cm x 66cm x 38.7cm

9.5l ball lock keg dimensions: 214mm Diameter x 370mm High.

i think the 4L oxbar may fit… Diameter:155mm. Height: 325mm

it also has a 10-12mm hole up top so you could feed some hose with a tap connected through it.

i need to double check it will fit the sodastream + 360 mini reg, can’t remember if i tried this yet.

anyhow, seems a good portable setup.

[Clayton Bolck]

That's great, thank you - have you got a photo of what it looks like set up? I'm not particularly handy and always interested to see how people make things work. It took me a lot of planning and hesitation to even put taps on my beer fridge 😛  

[Mike A]

Pictures below.

so, confirmed that the mini 360 + the kegland co2 sodastream style bottle together is too tall to fit, unfortunately.  So the 360 + a co2 cartridge would work as an alternative. I’ll use the sodastream bottle for the fridge i think instead.
As you may see from the top shot theres plenty room around the keg for ice to keep it all cool. I just got the tape measure out and i can see the space at the bottom between the side bumps (for the wheels) is just shy of 200mm. So that corney wont fit, the smaller oxbar will be fine.

With the port at the top i plan to just poke through the tap at the top and leave loose on 8od 4id hose, having experienced with the nukatap mini you really need the spring to ensure it’s fully closed at rest. Yeah i had a bit of a spill… that and the flow adjustable ball lock so you can manage foam without having a giant coiled up hose to manage pressure.

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/duotight-8mm-x-flow-control-ball-lock-disconnect-liquid-black-yellow-pok
 

[Mike A]

Had a new thought. If i use a plastic liquid post carbonation cap and a duotight connector underneath i can use the nukatap mini + flow control ball lock disconnect in one of the cup holder slots and dispense from there. Use the hole at the top to run co2 down to the keg and strap the sodastream to the top/ back somehow.  Job done.

 

[Mike A]

Ok, had a bit of fun and a lot of playing around to get this right.  I personally went this way instead of a pluto gun or picnic tap because I also desire to keep the hose to a minimum, with the theory that the beer will be cooler.  Also as I'm using a flow control disconnect, you don't need to coil a bunch of hose inside the thing, leaving more space for ice.  I also chose kegland for the parts as I live around 15mins drive from them, so easy to pickup & save on shipping.  No reason someone elses kit would work.

Cutting to the chase, the best solution I could find to a top mounted tap is the following set of parts:

Tap setup:

Nukatap mini:

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/nukatap-mini-tap-only?_pos=13&_sid=fccbd3a40&_ss=r

Nukatap mini duotight adaptor:

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/nukatap-mini-duotight-adaptor-8mm-5-16?_pos=2&_psq=mini&_ss=e&_v=1.0

Nukatap mini self closing tap spring
https://www.kegland.com.au/products/nukatap-mini-spring?_pos=5&_sid=e4f795e28&_ss=r

Liquid ball lock post setup:

Stainless ball lock post with bulkhead assembly: (sits on top of esky)

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/liquid-ball-lock-post-with-1-4-inch-bsp-bulkhead-assembly?variant=43495373701376

1x washer (second wouldn't fit on the other side of the esky due to internal angles (sits below post on top of esky)

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/stainless-1-4-inch-bsp-washers-13mm-id-x-24mm-od-x-2mm-thick?variant=43494489981184

1/4 BSP internal threaded pipe socket (join ball lock bulkhead to duotight adapter below):

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/1-4-inch-bsp-stainless-internal-threaded-pipe-socket?variant=43494359367936

8mm female x 1/4inch BSP thread with seated o-ring (easy connect/disconnect line for cleaning & replacement, connects to threaded pipe socket)

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/duotight-8mm-5-16-female-x-bsp-male-thread-with-seated-o-ring?variant=43495455523072

Hose to run 8mm x 4mm EVA line:

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/evabarrier-4mm5-32-x-8mm5-16-double-wall-eva-12meter-length-in-bag-beer-line-gas-line?_pos=2&_sid=725821608&_ss=r

Ball lock liquid duotight (keg to ball lock post to duotight BSP connector)

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/duotight-8mm-5-16-x-ball-lock-disconnect-black-yellow-liquid?_pos=1&_sid=2ba93c29c&_ss=r

That ends the liquid side...

Gas side:

Sodastream compatible bottle (better than the newer sodastream bottles, better for re-filling & easy to get parts for) If you have a Sodastream bottle you can skip this, also you could use disposable co2 cartridges. You can get these from Dans, Colesworth, Kegland etc.

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/450gram-sodastream-compatible-refillable-gas-cylinder-for-co2-or-nitrogen?_pos=5&_sid=a3b3d5f50&_ss=r

Mini 360 core actuator regulator (Compatible with disposable Co2 & Sodastream bottles)

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/kegland-mini-360-core-actuator-regulator-sodastream-16g-74g-bulb-compatible?_pos=11&_sid=90e510b32&_ss=r

Duotight 6.35mm female x 8mm female reducer (connects Mini 360 to hose listed above)

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/duotight-6-35mm-female-x-8mm-5-16-female-reducer

Duotight 8mm x ball lock disconnect for gas (connects Eva line from Mini 360 to keg)

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/duotight-8mm-5-16-x-ball-lock-disconnect-grey-red-gas?_pos=1&_sid=aad89d6f4&_ss=r

 

Other tools/parts recommended:
17mm Spanner (for ball lock connect/disconnect) https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0CG8XFSH3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Liquid & Gas rated silicone tape (used only here for connection to stainless steel ball lock to pipe socket as it's stainless to stainless connection and the oring is not in the right place for this) Make sure you do at least 5-6 winds around the thread & test after, had a leak on mine had to re-do.

Adjustable wrench, for general use, including making sure you get a good connection on the Sodastream bottle & mini-360, don't over-tighten but take it a 1/4 turn past finger tight.  Also use 2 of these to loosen the mini 360 off without taking the top of the sodastream bottle off (don't just turn the bottle to remove).

Drill bits to pilot the hole in the top of the esky, try to get something close, found I could thread on to the esky itself when I used a 12mm spade bit.  I think the OD thread of the bulkhead is around 12-13mm.

Get some food grade lube for the ball locks & disconnects, especially the flow control disconnect is very tight or at least mine is and can be difficult to get on or off easily without this.

Optional, replace the analogue pressure gauge on the mini 360 with a digital one, just easier to get your pressure correct.  Still need to better understand force carbonation but this would make it a lot easier to get it accurate.

Optional, get the sodastream filling adapter for the larger gas cylinders so you can refill at home, great way to save a lot of money, only $20 to refill a 2.4 kg CO2 bottle. I think the 2.4kg will fill a sodastream bottle 7+ times? Don't recall off hand, but that's at least a 7 fold discount on your CO2.

Optional but makes clean-up easier. Gas free ball lock line cleaning kit. This allows you to use a hand pump on top of a normal softdrink bottle to test your setup & clean the lines without needing to disconnect everything.  Saves on CO2 as well.

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/gas-free-ball-lock-line-cleaning-kit-pet-party-pump-combo?_pos=3&_sid=fcbd8a4f9&_ss=r

Avoid my mistakes:

Don't use the plastic ball lock disconnects as an attachment to the esky itself, it wobbled around like crazy as it wasn't really screwed in or held at all if just using a duotight connector on the other side of the lid, any upward pressure engaged the duotight release so the ball lock just fell off.  If you could attach a plastic bottle thread to the top of the esky somehow this could work, but got really dodgy at that point.  I think the stainless version will work better & comes with a small nut to secure it to the other side of the esky & the washer to spread the force.

With some better planning I could put the sodastream bottle + mini360 into an esky that would fit both, the mini 360 adds a whole lot of height to the co2 bottle and didn't fit in my esky.  It still works fine externally, the hole in the top of the esky that came with it works great. just marginally annoying to have to find somewhere to put it.

Make sure you use a detergent or starsan co2 spray leak test.  I didn't lose a lot of co2 but a noticeable amount.  I know this is a regular warning, that I didn't follow, so yeah, don't be dumb like me.

The spring in my opinion is not optional.  It's really easy to put the tap in your pocket while you're carrying your portable setup, and be on or partly on when you connect it to the top of the esky.  If that's connected to the keg and the keg is pressureised then yeah, you just made a beerey puddle.

Hope this helps someone!

Hope I remembered all the parts correctly.