Hops addition and force carbonation into 10litre mini keg

[Percy]

Hi Guys,

Doing my first brew (American Pale) which I will be transferring to a 10 litre mini keg and using co2 for carbonation. I was hoping for some advice from anyone who may have a similar setup, on when and where to add the hops, ie direct to droid or keg, how long to rest, force carbonation tips etc.

Thanks in advance,

Percy

[Captain 3 Droids]

5 hours ago, Arin Percy said:

Hi Guys,

Doing my first brew (American Pale) which I will be transferring to a 10 litre mini keg and using co2 for carbonation. I was hoping for some advice from anyone who may have a similar setup, on when and where to add the hops, ie direct to droid or keg, how long to rest, force carbonation tips etc.

Thanks in advance,

Percy

Hi Arin, Mark here. The American Pale Ale is a good one for a first brew and you should really enjoy it. I keg all my brews into ss  ball lock Cornelius 10l kegs. Are yours this style or the tall Ikegger type with a screw on top (spear) and ball lock disconnects?

The difference will relate to how you force carbonate with co2.

Hop addition, I suspect you have the liquid hops provided with the Brewprint and not pellets. I add the hops (pellets in a hop bag) when fermentation is complete by carefully opening the lid and leave for the 2 days keg mode before it goes into storage and then keg. However adding to the keg first then filling up is a good way to go and best with the liquid.

Let us know the keg type you have and we can then go down the force carbonation route.

Cheers Mark.

[Percy]

Thanks heaps Mark, greatly appreciated.

I have the ikegger style mini keg with ball lock screw type.

I have liquid hops provided with print . I was hoping not to lift the lid to add hops, and was worried about temp once beer transferred to keg, as I assume it needs to sit at around the 18degree range for a couple of days, before dropping to around 3degree range for carbonation? I think it may be easier to risk contamination and to add hops to droid, to keep temp levels controlled by droid?

I have been doing some reading on force carbonation, including shaking keg, higher psi etc, to get drinking faster, so any advice would be fantastic. I have 10litre, 8litre, and 2litre kegs, so if I do hop directly to droid I could try shaking with the 2litre?

First attempt brewing with the droid, did some plastic wort brewing about ten years ago, and have got the brewing bug again.

[Captain 3 Droids]

59 minutes ago, Arin Percy said:

Thanks heaps Mark, greatly appreciated.

I have the ikegger style mini keg with ball lock screw type.

I have liquid hops provided with print . I was hoping not to lift the lid to add hops, and was worried about temp once beer transferred to keg, as I assume it needs to sit at around the 18degree range for a couple of days, before dropping to around 3degree range for carbonation? I think it may be easier to risk contamination and to add hops to droid, to keep temp levels controlled by droid?

I have been doing some reading on force carbonation, including shaking keg, higher psi etc, to get drinking faster, so any advice would be fantastic. I have 10litre, 8litre, and 2litre kegs, so if I do hop directly to droid I could try shaking with the 2litre?

First attempt brewing with the droid, did some plastic wort brewing about ten years ago, and have got the brewing bug again.

You will get to love the droid. If you are going to add the hop solution to the droid then remove and replace lid slowly so as not to create too much air turbulence, tip liquid in, in a circle and do not stir. Replace lid.

From what your saying I take it that you are going to let the droid go to the store mode to achieve the 3C temperature? If so you will need to chill the keg as well as cold beer into a warm keg will create foaming issues. 

I fill the keg at the keg mode (that way you can also add hops to the keg) using a silicone sanitised tube, put the lid on and purge the keg with co2 at 30psi. I then put the keg aside at room temperature until a day or so before needing. Then I put the keg in the fridge a chill overnight to around 3C.

There are two ways to force carbonate the Ikegger kegs 1) by connecting the co2 to the gas disconnect at 30psi, lay the keg on its side and rock it back and forth fairly rapidly for 2 mins 10l, 100 seconds for 8l and 30 seconds 2l. 2) best method - being able to connect the Co2 to the beer out disconnect and again at 30psi leave the kegs in upright position and rapidly shake back and forth for 100 seconds 10l, 80 seconds for 8l and 20 seconds 2l. In both cases you will hear the bubbling of the Co2.

(Different times as with the beer out connection the co2 is bubbling through all of the beer whereas with the gas disconnect it is bubbling into a portion of the beer.)

Then put you keg into the fridge, wait for an hour or so until the shaken beer has settled then connect the gas at your serving pressure. Leave for 24 hours and all should be good.

Let us know how you go.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Barrelboy

[Percy]

You sir are a legend! Info provided is absolute gold. 

So new plan. 

- Droid in keg mode

- add hops to keg, screw on ball lock

- add beer to keg using tube and disconnect

- purge oxygen from keg with CO2

- leave for 24 hours

- put keg in fridge for unknown period of time to get to 3 degrees

- force carbonation using shake method, put in fridge for an hour, connect CO2 at serving pressure, about 8psi I assume? Wait patiently for another 24 hours

- drink

If you recommend doing anything different, let me know, otherwise I will post back with my results. 

Thanks again, really appreciated. 

 

 

[Captain 3 Droids]

16 minutes ago, Arin Percy said:

You sir are a legend! Info provided is absolute gold. 

So new plan. 

- Droid in keg mode

- add hops to keg, screw on ball lock

- add beer to keg using tube and disconnect

- purge oxygen from keg with CO2

- leave for 24 hours

- put keg in fridge for unknown period of time to get to 3 degrees

- force carbonation using shake method, put in fridge for an hour, connect CO2 at serving pressure, about 8psi I assume? Wait patiently for another 24 hours

- drink

If you recommend doing anything different, let me know, otherwise I will post back with my results. 

Thanks again, really appreciated. 

 

 

Thanks for the compliments.

1) just be aware that leaving it for only 24hours will mean your beer will be fairly “green” and will not have matured for its best outcome in terms of developing flavours ect. Often people wait 4, 6 plus weeks before consuming. However you need to build some stock to effectively achieve this.

Having said that, I understand and appreciate the eagerness with this new brew and I would do the same so yes go ahead as you have proposed.

One thing I should have mentioned is before connecting the gas at serving pressure, pressure release the keg as the pressure in there may be higher than the serving pressure due to the force carbonation.

Cheers and look forward to your report.

Cheers.

[Rob Courtney]

6 hours ago, Barrelboy said:

 

1) just be aware that leaving it for only 24hours will mean your beer will be fairly “green” and will not have matured for its best outcome in terms of developing flavours ect. Often people wait 4, 6 plus weeks before consuming. However you need to build some stock to effectively achieve this.

 

The way I got around this and much to my wifes annoyance after purchasing a droid, was to go bugger it, going to buy a few cartons and just brew until I get a stockpile. Stupidly, I did this in early Autumn when we had some serious warm weather, so I necked those few cartons quicker than I intended.

But yeah, good advice, leaving it to develop has it's own rewards

[Percy]

Hey Guys,

American Pale Ale brew complete. I added hops directly to droid so i could test with my 2L keg. Cold crashed Droid for 30 hours and then poured a taste test. A bit cloudy and a bit of sediment but tasted real good. I have just filled a two litre keg and attempted to force carbonate using mini regulator and bulb gas connected to gas connect and rolling keg for 30 secs at 30psi. Issue I had was mini regulator was maxed out at 30 psi not liking it, and eventually leaking co2 out of bulb connection essentially freezing bulb. I cannot hear the keg bubbling as if it was carbonating? I have put in fridge to settle and will connect at serving pressure in an hour.

As I only have the one regulator currently I plan to leave the remaining 8L of beer in the droid and keg and slowly carbonate at lower pressure once the 2L is finished.

I am curious as to whether I should try "roll" carbonating again due to not hearing bubbling. I am also curious as to whether I should be kegging into 8L or leave in the droid? Will beer "condition" in the fridge or should it be at room temp?

Appreciate all the advice guys,

Percy

[Captain 3 Droids]

7 hours ago, Arin Percy said:

Hey Guys,

American Pale Ale brew complete. I added hops directly to droid so i could test with my 2L keg. Cold crashed Droid for 30 hours and then poured a taste test. A bit cloudy and a bit of sediment but tasted real good. I have just filled a two litre keg and attempted to force carbonate using mini regulator and bulb gas connected to gas connect and rolling keg for 30 secs at 30psi. Issue I had was mini regulator was maxed out at 30 psi not liking it, and eventually leaking co2 out of bulb connection essentially freezing bulb. I cannot hear the keg bubbling as if it was carbonating? I have put in fridge to settle and will connect at serving pressure in an hour.

As I only have the one regulator currently I plan to leave the remaining 8L of beer in the droid and keg and slowly carbonate at lower pressure once the 2L is finished.

I am curious as to whether I should try "roll" carbonating again due to not hearing bubbling. I am also curious as to whether I should be kegging into 8L or leave in the droid? Will beer "condition" in the fridge or should it be at room temp?

Appreciate all the advice guys,

Percy

Sorry Percy didn’t realise you were using a mini regulator and co2 bulbs. The 30psi method as it’s the regs maximum and bulbs won’t work well at all.

Here is a link to the ikegger mini reg. method, hope it helps.

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Barrelboy

[Captain 3 Droids]

Where abouts are you, could help with other information.

Also look into the soda stream 400g bottle and the mini regulator adaptor you can get for the bottle. Will be a lot cheaper than soda bulbs if your going to stay with the mini regulator set up for a while.

Cheers Mark

[Captain 3 Droids]

How’s it all going?

[Percy]

Hey mate, 

All going well, thanks heaps for the ikegger carbonation link, perfect. Got a soda stream adapted coming, and finally got my 6kg refilled, which I had previously been using with fish tank. Will be installing gas and a couple of flow control taps in the fridge this week.

American pale ale had some initial carbonation issues but I think I am close to where I need to be at. Still tastes quite "home brewish" which I assume is what people call "green". Tasting every couple of days. 2nd brew which is Cooper's pale ale will be kegged tonight. Initial taste quite plain. I will try and let this one condition a little longer than the first brew. 

 

[Captain 3 Droids]

Great to hear. Yes the “green” is from early drinking however if happy with it then that’s a darn good start as it proves it will end up a top drop in time (if you can leave it that long 😋)

After you feel more confident we can talk about dry hopping as this can take some of the “plainness” out of some brews. Eg. Some galaxy hops to  pale ale gives you the basic Coopers Session Ale.

Cheers, Mark (keep the forum informed if you want to, ie no pressure)

[Percy]

Hey Guys,

Thought I would post some updates. The Coopers Pale Ale is coming along nicely. Been 10 days in the keg, and losing its "greeness" a lot quicker than the American pale Ale did. Just kegged a Lighthouse Pacific Pale, and by initial taste tests this one is gonna be a ripper. Would be more than happy to drink now but gonna give it some time. Got 8 litre keg conditioning and force carbed a little 2 litre keg to do some taste tests over time. Was about to do a Lawnmower Lager but unfortunately have noticed my bung is leaking. I have sent email via "contact us" page on BrewArt site, so hopefully get a replacement soon. I bought the droid off eBay, and have noticed the tap grommet is in pretty bad shape also. Has anybody else had any experience on how long these things lat from new?

Cheers,

Percy

 

[Captain 3 Droids]

12 minutes ago, Arin Percy said:

Hey Guys,

Thought I would post some updates. The Coopers Pale Ale is coming along nicely. Been 10 days in the keg, and losing its "greeness" a lot quicker than the American pale Ale did. Just kegged a Lighthouse Pacific Pale, and by initial taste tests this one is gonna be a ripper. Would be more than happy to drink now but gonna give it some time. Got 8 litre keg conditioning and force carbed a little 2 litre keg to do some taste tests over time. Was about to do a Lawnmower Lager but unfortunately have noticed my bung is leaking. I have sent email via "contact us" page on BrewArt site, so hopefully get a replacement soon. I bought the droid off eBay, and have noticed the tap grommet is in pretty bad shape also. Has anybody else had any experience on how long these things lat from new?

Cheers,

Percy

 

Good to hear things in the brew department going well. Is the tap grommet the rings that slide/hold the tap in the droid, ie on the outside? If so and the sealing rings are red you can get the whole tap replaced free with the new one by emailing the brewart store contact. 
Is the bung leaking much? If not a keg lube will fix that in the interim if you have some or a bit of plumbers tape.

Hows the force carbonation going?

Edited October 20, 2019 by Barrelboy

[Captain 3 Droids]

On 20/10/2019 at 3:16 PM, Barrelboy said:

Good to hear things in the brew department going well. Is the tap grommet the rings that slide/hold the tap in the droid, ie on the outside? If so and the sealing rings are red you can get the whole tap replaced free with the new one by emailing the brewart store contact. 
Is the bung leaking much? If not a keg lube will fix that in the interim if you have some or a bit of plumbers tape.

Hows the force carbonation going?

Hi Arin, how are things going now. 

[Percy]

Hey Mark,

Back on track! New bung done the trick. Completed a Lawnmower Lager and have an Abbey Dubbell in droid now. Been fermenting for 12 days.

Force carbonation going great after your expert tips. I do tend to "slow" force carbonate these days sitting on about 15psi for 5 days or so.

I am finding my beers are all tasting very similar, and not sure if it is due to me drinking to early or "conditioning" kegs in fridge. I might start a new thread regarding "keg conditioning and temp", and hopefully you can steer me in the right direction....again !

 

[Captain 3 Droids]

No problems at all. Glad all going well. Nothing wrong with the slow set and forget) method of carbonation. Good to know how to do it quickly if needed. Have kegged a lawnmower but haven’t tasted yet.

[Percy]

Drinking one now! Light on the flavour, very easy drinking.

 

[Captain 3 Droids]

6 minutes ago, Arin Percy said:

Drinking one now! Light on the flavour, very easy drinking.

 

Looks cold and refreshing. Love the easy drinking ones on a hot day, then again a cold day is ok as well.

[KV brewer]

Hi guys,

Reading up on this topic. Just kegged my first brew with my new 10L iKegger system. Will leave at 5C at around 12psi to carbonate in my bar fridge kegerator for a couple weeks.

Just wondering in terms to have a “green” brew. I only have enough room for 1 x 10L keg in my kegerator. 

Would a beer mature well in the droid in storage mode once fermentation is complete?

Thinking of always having a backup brew in storage in the droid while I drink from my 10L keg. 

Cheers 

KV 

[Captain 3 Droids]

5 minutes ago, KV brewer said:

Hi guys,

Reading up on this topic. Just kegged my first brew with my new 10L iKegger system. Will leave at 5C at around 12psi to carbonate in my bar fridge kegerator for a couple weeks.

Just wondering in terms to have a “green” brew. I only have enough room for 1 x 10L keg in my kegerator. 

Would a beer mature well in the droid in storage mode once fermentation is complete?

Thinking of always having a backup brew in storage in the droid while I drink from my 10L keg. 

Cheers 

KV 

Hi again KV. If you have more than one 10l keg you could store and mature your beer in those at room temperature after purging with Co2. However leaving in the droid at storage temperature would be fine as well however this can hamper putting further brews on.

[KV brewer]

Hi Captain. Thanks for your reply. 

Ok in this case it makes sense to maybe get another 10L keg. 

So basically I keg from the droid and then purge with CO2 and then the kegged beer can sit at room temp for many weeks/months to mature? No need worry about carbonating until getting ready to drink. Is that correct?

I have a cellar so ambient temp control is pretty good. 
 

cheers 

KV

[Captain 3 Droids]

10 minutes ago, KV brewer said:

Hi Captain. Thanks for your reply. 

Ok in this case it makes sense to maybe get another 10L keg. 

So basically I keg from the droid and then purge with CO2 and then the kegged beer can sit at room temp for many weeks/months to mature? No need worry about carbonating until getting ready to drink. Is that correct?

I have a cellar so ambient temp control is pretty good. 
 

cheers 

KV

You are spot on. Weeks/months are fine, I recently cracked a keg after 15 weeks. I purge at 30psi so as to some force in pushing O2 out of the head space. Connect the gas line and release the pressure release valve about 5 times in short spurts. Purging at 10psi is fine but I do about 10 short spurts.

[KV brewer]

Great thanks for the advice Captain.