Carbonation General Discussions

[Captain 3 Droids]

As we don’t have a general discussion thread on this forum I’ve placed this here. 
 

Homebrew carbonation has some interesting points of interest to it. Most of us are familiar with the one carb drop for a stubbie, two for a long neck or the measuring devices for sugar/dextrose ect. Interestingly a 5 litre keg (about 7 long necks) does not require the same amount of primer as an equivalent to the bottles. This is mainly due to the bigger volume with a small head space. The priming method also requires a minimum of 14 days for carbonation however can take a bit longer depending upon temperature/yeast activity. Then there is the issue of maturing times, disregarding stouts and high alcohol brews, 6 to 8 weeks seems to be the go.

Now I have mention in a few threads that imo co2 carbonation adds a crispness to the brew, can be done immediately if desired and can eliminated the 2 weeks of general primer carbonation. So can this give co2 carbonated beer a 2 week advantage in maturing?

Now what I find very interesting is what breweries and U Brew It setups do. With U Brew It facilities you make your all grain batch, they ferment for two weeks, filter the beer and provide you with either a co2 carbonated keg, or you bottle your brew which has been co2 carbonated. They tell you to take it home and chill to serving temperature straight away and can be consumed when ready. No maturing seems necessary.

Now brewery’s don’t hold onto their products like kegs, bottles and cans. All are co2 carbonated after fermentation, processed and out the door. So how old is the slab you buy or the pint over the bar? Under theses circumstances have you ever said, that needs to mature?

I’m not saying let’s all go co2, it just happens to be my current system set up prior to BrewArt. I thought it partly explains why I’m drinking mine a bit earlier without issue. When I bottled for all those years 6 to 8 weeks was the go for good results for most recipes.
 

 

 

[Captain 3 Droids]

On 08/03/2020 at 10:49 AM, Barrelboy said:

As we don’t have a general discussion thread on this forum I’ve placed this here. 
 

Homebrew carbonation has some interesting points of interest to it. Most of us are familiar with the one carb drop for a stubbie, two for a long neck or the measuring devices for sugar/dextrose ect. Interestingly a 5 litre keg (about 7 long necks) does not require the same amount of primer as an equivalent to the bottles. This is mainly due to the bigger volume with a small head space. The priming method also requires a minimum of 14 days for carbonation however can take a bit longer depending upon temperature/yeast activity. Then there is the issue of maturing times, disregarding stouts and high alcohol brews, 6 to 8 weeks seems to be the go.

Now I have mention in a few threads that imo co2 carbonation adds a crispness to the brew, can be done immediately if desired and can eliminated the 2 weeks of general primer carbonation. So can this give co2 carbonated beer a 2 week advantage in maturing?

Now what I find very interesting is what breweries and U Brew It setups do. With U Brew It facilities you make your all grain batch, they ferment for two weeks, filter the beer and provide you with either a co2 carbonated keg, or you bottle your brew which has been co2 carbonated. They tell you to take it home and chill to serving temperature straight away and can be consumed when ready. No maturing seems necessary.

Now brewery’s don’t hold onto their products like kegs, bottles and cans. All are co2 carbonated after fermentation, processed and out the door. So how old is the slab you buy or the pint over the bar? Under theses circumstances have you ever said, that needs to mature?

I’m not saying let’s all go co2, it just happens to be my current system set up prior to BrewArt. I thought it partly explains why I’m drinking mine a bit earlier without issue. When I bottled for all those years 6 to 8 weeks was the go for good results for most recipes.
 

 

 

No comments? Particularly para 4 & 5 on breweries.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Barrelboy

[Rob Courtney]

In a perfect world, I would have known more about home brewing before I went and purchased. That would have allowed me to buy a fridge to fit four ten litre kegs in it and I would pressure charge my brews. That is from a practical sense and also from a show sense, you could have folk around, or you could take a keg with you to a party ( well at least I saw that with I Kegger

As it is though, apart from getting onto bottle capping a bit late, I'm not having that much of an issue, I can drink it a bit younger or let it stretch to see how it goes. I have gone back to carb drops on both kegs and bottles, they just work better and I'm not fussed that it is a few cents extra at this stage.

To point 4 though, it is one that has had me scratching my head since I started brewing. I can see how flavours change and become different from different stages of secondary. How does the brewer ( for example a Crown Lager) have it at that same taste for basically a year until it will then start to show some signs of changing. There must be some preservatives and stabilising agents in the brew to help achieve that consistency the whole way through.

In saying that though, I have had a Coopers Vintage when it first came out and one from the same carton 18 months after and there was a fair difference in that. 

 

[Captain 3 Droids]

11 hours ago, Rob Courtney said:

In a perfect world, I would have known more about home brewing before I went and purchased. That would have allowed me to buy a fridge to fit four ten litre kegs in it and I would pressure charge my brews. That is from a practical sense and also from a show sense, you could have folk around, or you could take a keg with you to a party ( well at least I saw that with I Kegger

As it is though, apart from getting onto bottle capping a bit late, I'm not having that much of an issue, I can drink it a bit younger or let it stretch to see how it goes. I have gone back to carb drops on both kegs and bottles, they just work better and I'm not fussed that it is a few cents extra at this stage.

To point 4 though, it is one that has had me scratching my head since I started brewing. I can see how flavours change and become different from different stages of secondary. How does the brewer ( for example a Crown Lager) have it at that same taste for basically a year until it will then start to show some signs of changing. There must be some preservatives and stabilising agents in the brew to help achieve that consistency the whole way through.

In saying that though, I have had a Coopers Vintage when it first came out and one from the same carton 18 months after and there was a fair difference in that. 

 

Thanks Rob. I think you may be on the right track about general commercial beers having preservatives and stabilising agents. This certainly could account for the “consistency” over time. On the other hand the Coopers brews, eg Coopers Vintage don’t have additives such as the preservatives/stabilises and therefore would account for the improvement over time.

With regards to the manner of storing and consumption, I would have gone the Beerdroid/beerflo/botttling if available at the time. The kegging system that I have is quite expensive to set up and entails more cleaning/maintenance than your set up. I could then run a smaller fridge, No co2 bottles, run two beerflo units if not eventually 3 at $400. 
 

I think this is an interesting discussion and stick with your setup.

[Paul84]

For me and I think it might not be the cost effective way but I am likely to grab 1 or 2 5litre Ikegger set ups and use the Sodastream ( heaps more available where I am instead of CO2 bulbs) and I will trial a few forced carb vs natural carb and see what O like more. And beers that I am going through quickly maybe I can force carb . Plus gives me a trial by fire of how painful it is to clean and maintain keg gear lol . The brewflo kegs are so easy to maintain as is the brewflo system . My only concern is the inconsistency in the pours. The Lion city keg i just finished poured beautifully from start to finish , but the Narci Citrus ( and all 4 Narci Citrus kegs I have drunk) are heavily foamy maybe over carbonated ???

[Captain 3 Droids]

Interesting  article In today’s Advertiser (SA paper)

[Rob Courtney]

Yeah interesting that they say 3-4 months in optimal conditions yet they give 12 months on a best before date and they are really saying "you should probably drink straight away" when it comes to stock beer.

It makes sense though, with something like the Boags Pilsner, you could tell the difference in the beer from carton to carton, sometimes it was fine, sometimes a little off but still drinkable. It does put into perspective though what has been said on the lagers even in the Brewart range, I remember Liam saying 8 weeks was the sweet spot and he is probably spot on with that call, you may prefer a week or two either side but there is a noticeable difference too early or a month or two after, particularly later  when the tend to morph into the same beer. 

This was also evident in the wheat beer, for it's intended taste I believe that needed to be drunk early to get the wheat beer flavour and after 8 weeks, that flavour became less and less though in difference to the lagers, still maintained a crispness that made it enjoyable if not a completely different beer.

Interested in your views on the ales n this regard, I can really only use the Guinness as a starting point and that was compromised by being in plastic bottles  

[Captain 3 Droids]

28 minutes ago, Rob Courtney said:

Yeah interesting that they say 3-4 months in optimal conditions yet they give 12 months on a best before date and they are really saying "you should probably drink straight away" when it comes to stock beer.

It makes sense though, with something like the Boags Pilsner, you could tell the difference in the beer from carton to carton, sometimes it was fine, sometimes a little off but still drinkable. It does put into perspective though what has been said on the lagers even in the Brewart range, I remember Liam saying 8 weeks was the sweet spot and he is probably spot on with that call, you may prefer a week or two either side but there is a noticeable difference too early or a month or two after, particularly later  when the tend to morph into the same beer. 

This was also evident in the wheat beer, for it's intended taste I believe that needed to be drunk early to get the wheat beer flavour and after 8 weeks, that flavour became less and less though in difference to the lagers, still maintained a crispness that made it enjoyable if not a completely different beer.

Interested in your views on the ales n this regard, I can really only use the Guinness as a starting point and that was compromised by being in plastic bottles  

With respect to ales (other than stouts and high alcohol % brews which do seem to get a lot better over a long time) I feel they do need a good 8 weeks + to mature. Lagers to me vary, some need time but others are enjoyable quite fresh. ( perhaps that’s acceptable to me as being only new to here consumption). Your correct with the wheat beers, full flavour early and would suggest having a taste at 3 to 4 weeks.

You do have to wonder about the brewery beers, I mean the article doesn’t fullY support the fact that beer is fermented, kegged/bottled/canned, shaken about on the delivery truck in 40C plus heat. Perhaps the true reasoning to drink them early 🙂