First All Grain NEIPA

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

Well I went and did it, properly this time. Did a complete Brew in a Bag all grain brew.

After more research, went and purchased a bigger 19l stock pot ($18 @ Big W on special for $12) and other items mostly sourced from the local $2 shop.

Used Brewfather to come up with the recipe based on other NEIPA recipes shared in Brewfather plus others on various websites and YouTube videos.

3.6 kg total Grain Bill

1.3 kg Gladfield American Ale Malt

1.3 kg Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise Pale Malt

0.3 kg Gladfield Big-O Malted Oats

0.3 kg Gladfield Wheat Malt

0.2 kg Gladfield Gladiator Malt (carapils)

Even added salts to the RO water.

Strike temp at 70°C

Grains in, stirred and then left for a 60 minute mash @ 66-67°C. Checked temp and gave a stirring every 15 minutes or so.

Only had to heat with gas the once during the mash but then remembered to cover with towels... D'OH. Did that and it stayed at temp for the remaining duration of the mash.

Strained the bag into the pot and got it on for a planned 30 minute boil.

With 10 minutes left, single bittering hop addition of 25g Moutere hops. At the same time I also put in 1/2 teaspoon of yeast nutrient.

Then post flameout, a 10 minute hop stand @ 85°C with 10g each of Motueka, Rakau and Rawaka

Finally strained into a 10l wort cube that I had cleaned and then sanatised waiting to go into the Droid when the current brew gets kegged.

Still waiting on the latest Hazy Double IPA for the dry hopping so it's another 5 days or so I'm guessing.

Started at 1030 this morning and had the wort in the cube by 1345, so 3 and 1/4 hours seems not too bad to me.

Clean up took a good 30 minutes or so. The grain bag is on the balcony drying out and I'll spread it around the flower beds that surround the apartment here.

All said and done, very happy with how that went.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Wazza_wantsbeer
Spelling

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

So after that shock horror yesterday when lifting the Droid lid for dry hopping my Double Hazy IPA and finding a forest of pellicle, and following @Captain 3 Droids  advice in terms of cleaning the Droid...

I cleaned and sanitised the droid letting it sit with Sodium Percarbonate overnight then draining, using StellarSan, then rinsing, filling with water and adding 3 Droid cleanse tablets and letting sit for 6 hours...

I finally, finally got my all grain Double NEIPA into the Droid after it's patiently sat waiting in the cube for the past 8 days. Whew!

So I santised the cube outside especially the lid and pouring area, then poured from cube directly into the Droid trying to shake it a bit as I wanted to mix things up as best I could. I also tried to make sure I got some aeration with the pour as well.

I did notice there was a bit of sediment left at the bottom of the cube, oh well. Also, after pouring I did notice that there is a lack of consistency in the wort. Some lumpiness and areas that look a little thicker. Is this normal?

Went with the  Lalbrew Voss - Kveik Ale Yeast with this. Hoping that it will perform as advertised and end up being a quick fermentation.

In terms of customised brewing program I went with...

Brewing Program: Propagate: 30°C, Ferment: 30°C, Store: 4°C, Keg: 15°C, Dry Hop: Yes

Still trying to decide what hops to use with this, any suggestions...???

It's funny, I thought the Droid had a maximum brew temperature of higher than 30°C but when doing a custom program, that is the high side limit so I must have been wrong?

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

To answer my own question, from the Droid Manual;

ferment temperature (max: 30°C/86°F, and min: 5°C/41°F). 

I do see that Storage temp goes higher;

store temperature (max: 7°C/45°F, and min: 3°C/37°F)

From the Lallemand website, for Lalbrew Voss, the optimal temperature range for LalBrew Voss™ yeast when producing traditional
styles is 35-40°C (95-104°F)

So I am thinking, maybe what I should do is cancel the program and just move it straight into storage mode at ~40°C?

Is this even possible?

Thoughts from the seasoned brewers and Droid users please???

Edited February 21, 2022 by Wazza_wantsbeer

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

D'OH!

Given I used Motueka, Rakau and Rawaka hops during the brew, I should stick with these hops when dry hopping.

To be honest, I think I've lost a bit of confidence in the Droid (more likely it's user error and therefore only myself to blame) given some of the failures I've had. That previous failure plus yesterdays pellicle infection has thrown me for a loop.

Probably got a bit overconfident and now...

Also, looking thru the viewing port, the wort looks weird. It's a bit lumpy and clumpy looking. 

To be honest, it smelt absolutely fine and I even tasted it and it tasted as expected and the same as what I remember from last Sunday's brew day. In hindsight, maybe I should have shaken it up more in the cube before I opened it???

Maybe I'm just overthinking this as my confidence is down.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Wazza_wantsbeer

[Dustin Frothman]

3 hours ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

So I am thinking, maybe what I should do is cancel the program and just move it straight into storage mode at ~40°C?

Is this even possible?

Thoughts from the seasoned brewers and Droid users please???

Have you misread the temperature ranges there? I think you could be mixing up the units and looking at Fahrenheit; I read that as a maximum storage temperature of 7 degrees Celcius.

As for your questions of Droid confidence - I reckon you've done just fine producing your wort, it looks really good. I understand why you've chosen to use the No Chill method as chilling wort manually is a pain. So if the beer style can handle it without any negative impact on flavour then it's a good idea. There will be some sediment in your cube. It's basically just vegetable matter from the hops you've boiled, hot break and cold break produced from the proteins in the grains. If this gets into your fermenter it just settles into the trub, especially if you cold crash.

Perhaps it's just your desire to do things quickly that is overcomplicating the brewing processes and sapping your confidence. The Droid is a brilliant fermenter and we know that this has been proven by many of us, but of course like anything it's not without its limitations and you just need to work within or around them.

I can see the appeal of the Kveik yeast but is it the most appropriate choice for the style of beer you're trying to produce? Obviously it ferments better in a hotter solution so I guess if you're determined to use it you could just buy a cheap plastic fermenter and a heat belt or pad. You'd spend about $50 or $60 on this.

If it was me then I'd just use a different yeast. The NEIPA yeast you used previously would be perfect and it likely to achieve the flavour profile you're aiming for. You could also consider spending a bit more and buying the equivalent yeast in liquid form if you're after increased fermentation performance.

Ultimately though I think some more planning will sort things out for you. So if you've got the time I'd be cooking up another wort this weekend and getting it in the cube ready for as soon as this one has finished fermenting. You've never really given yourself a chance to build up any stock so it appears that each and every brew is do or die for you and you're setting your expectations accordingly.

FWIW I still haven't tapped the keg on the very first all grain pale ale I produced (last year!) and it's likely I won't for a few weeks yet. So the more stock you can get built up is certain to take the pressure off the process and most importantly yourself. Don't forget you're not a commercial brewer or brewery so this is all meant to be good fun.

<insert yoda patience meme.png>

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

D'OH! @Dustin Frothman you are completely right, I misread and confused the C with F. A big F for me in this case. 

Also, great advice in terms of the Cube and wort, much appreciated.

Yeah, I'm beginning to see that the LalBrew Voss Kviek may not be ideal in the Droid given the optimal temperature for it.

However it is within the range as per the Lallemand website:

LalBrew Voss™ supports a wide range of fermentation temperatures between 25-40°C (77-104°F) with a very high optimal range of 35-40°C (95-104°F) and

Fermentation that is completed in:

2 days at 40°C (104°F)
3-4 days at 30°C (86°F)
5-7 days at 25°C (77°F)

Oh well, I've pitched it and will just have to watch. Already seeing a fair bit of activity and the wort has evened out now, with those proteins "chunks & floaties" no longer separated from the rest of the wort as it now has a much more consistent texture throughout. The colour has even lightened considerably when viewing thru the port.

In terms of the Kveik yeast, I've seen a heap of videos with YouTubers like "TheApartmentBrewer" doing amazing NEIPA's with the Voss Kveik in particular. However, I have to admit that they are using fermenters quite different from our respective Droids.

One thing is that the Voss Kveik is quite different from other Kveik yeasts and has some really strong Orange Citrus flavoured esters which really add to a NEIPA. However, given I'm not going to be stressing the yeast as much by fermenting at 30°C, I may not see as much of that desired flavour.

In terms of the other yeasts, I do really like the LalBrew Verdant IPA, the LalBrew East Coast was a bit disappointing to be honest and stuff I've read has said that even Lallemand were not as happy with it as they had hoped. I will try other yeasts but the Lallemand yeasts are readily available and easy for me to get.

In terms of stock, I have built up some stock, simply by drinking less since New Years  😂. I've still got almost a full 9,5l keg of the All Inn NEIPA sitting there as well as 5l of the cider.

I don't think I'm trying to do things too quickly, more than I am interested in seeing how I can change things up to make a style I really enjoy. Which as we know, is very hop forward, Hazies, NEIPAs and WCIPAs.

In terms of your suggestion to do another all grain, I've already planned for another brew day this weekend  and have placed another grain order in with 41 Pints. The next all grain will be more a Hazy and not a NEIPA.

The grain bill for this next all grain is as follows:
1.5 kg Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett), 1.0 kg Pilsner Malt (Gladfield), 0.6kg Big O (Gladfield), 0.4kg Wheat Malt (Gladfield)

I'm copying a shared recipe on BrewFather which I've scaled down to 10l for the Droid. I'm trying to get a nice light golden hazy colour with this one but will still be around 8.5% ABV which TBH, is my sweet spot.

And I'll be going back to the Verdant IPA yeast for this one although some comments on FaceBook around the Verdant IPA yeast being prone to pellicle has me a bit worried. Might look at other yeast options.

 

[Dustin Frothman]

5 hours ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

I don't think I'm trying to do things too quickly, more than I am interested in seeing how I can change things up to make a style I really enjoy.

 

On 21/02/2022 at 3:25 PM, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Went with the  Lalbrew Voss - Kveik Ale Yeast with this. Hoping that it will perform as advertised and end up being a quick fermentation.

No worries. I read the above quote as written and figured that this was perhaps adding to your stresses.

All good, and I'm glad you've got another brew planned. Get back on that horse!

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

Well, this isn't going very well.

Exact same issue that I experienced when trying my first partial mash.

Initially, the Droid quickly hit the 30°C temp and there were strong signs of the Voss Kveik yeast activity after only 4 or 5 hours. Unfortunately, those clear signs of activity only it lasted for a day or so but since I had a look yesterday morning, it's been as still as inside the Droid. No bubbles, no floaty bits moving around like you would normally see thru the viewing port.

So last night I tossed in another packet of the Voss and when I did so, there was little evidence of a krausen on the walls of the Droid and no bubbles rising to the surface.

Since tossing the 2nd packet, still nothing overnight and this morning.

Seriously, WTF am I doing wrong?

@Captain 3 Droids , @Hambone and other experienced all grain brewers, what am I doing wrong here?

My own thoughts and questions:

Is my PH too high/low? - Will go pick up a PH meter later today from the local JayCar shop to test.

Is the wort being contaminated during the mash and boil by the Stock Pot I am using? I haven't passivated it, should I be doing that?

Is the wort too high in non-fermentable sugars?

Given it was 66.6% base malt (Gladfield American Ale Malt @33.3% and Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise) plus I added 500g of BrewArt Enhancer X2 (which was heated in a separate pot until dissolved and then brought to a short boil before being added to the wort at the boil) which forms 12.8% of the fermentables and the final 20.5% being adjuncts - Gladfield Big-O Malted Oats @7.7%, Gladfield Wheat Malt @7.7% and Gladfield Gladiator Malt (carapils) @5.1%

Is the SG post boil of 1.082 to high for this yeast?

Anything else that anyone can think of?

I have another grain bill ready to go this weekend and I don't want this to happen yet again. 😰

FYI, and seeking advice, comments, criticisms, etc, the next grain bill is as follows:

3M Double Hazy IPA

1.5kg Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise (42.9%)

1.0kg Gladfield Pilsner Malt (28.6%)

0.6kg Gladfield Big-O Malted Oats (17.1%)

0.4kg Gladfield Wheat Malt (11.4%)

Yeast: LalBrew Verdant IPA Yeast

Hops: Mosaic, Motueka and Moutere with Riwaka used in the boil at 10mins for some bittering.

Thanks

[Captain 3 Droids]

15 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Well, this isn't going very well.

Exact same issue that I experienced when trying my first partial mash.

Initially, the Droid quickly hit the 30°C temp and there were strong signs of the Voss Kveik yeast activity after only 4 or 5 hours. Unfortunately, those clear signs of activity only it lasted for a day or so but since I had a look yesterday morning, it's been as still as inside the Droid. No bubbles, no floaty bits moving around like you would normally see thru the viewing port.

So last night I tossed in another packet of the Voss and when I did so, there was little evidence of a krausen on the walls of the Droid and no bubbles rising to the surface.

Since tossing the 2nd packet, still nothing overnight and this morning.

Seriously, WTF am I doing wrong?

@Captain 3 Droids , @Hambone and other experienced all grain brewers, what am I doing wrong here?

My own thoughts and questions:

Is my PH too high/low? - Will go pick up a PH meter later today from the local JayCar shop to test.

Is the wort being contaminated during the mash and boil by the Stock Pot I am using? I haven't passivated it, should I be doing that?

Is the wort too high in non-fermentable sugars?

Given it was 66.6% base malt (Gladfield American Ale Malt @33.3% and Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise) plus I added 500g of BrewArt Enhancer X2 (which was heated in a separate pot until dissolved and then brought to a short boil before being added to the wort at the boil) which forms 12.8% of the fermentables and the final 20.5% being adjuncts - Gladfield Big-O Malted Oats @7.7%, Gladfield Wheat Malt @7.7% and Gladfield Gladiator Malt (carapils) @5.1%

Is the SG post boil of 1.082 to high for this yeast?

Anything else that anyone can think of?

I have another grain bill ready to go this weekend and I don't want this to happen yet again. 😰

FYI, and seeking advice, comments, criticisms, etc, the next grain bill is as follows:

3M Double Hazy IPA

1.5kg Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise (42.9%)

1.0kg Gladfield Pilsner Malt (28.6%)

0.6kg Gladfield Big-O Malted Oats (17.1%)

0.4kg Gladfield Wheat Malt (11.4%)

Yeast: LalBrew Verdant IPA Yeast

Hops: Mosaic, Motueka and Moutere with Riwaka used in the boil at 10mins for some bittering.

Thanks

Mmm plenty of fermentable sugars. Can you do a hydrometer check now to compare with the SG of 1.082.

[Dustin Frothman]

16 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Well, this isn't going very well.

Exact same issue that I experienced when trying my first partial mash.

Initially, the Droid quickly hit the 30°C temp and there were strong signs of the Voss Kveik yeast activity after only 4 or 5 hours. Unfortunately, those clear signs of activity only it lasted for a day or so but since I had a look yesterday morning, it's been as still as inside the Droid. No bubbles, no floaty bits moving around like you would normally see thru the viewing port.

So last night I tossed in another packet of the Voss and when I did so, there was little evidence of a krausen on the walls of the Droid and no bubbles rising to the surface.

Since tossing the 2nd packet, still nothing overnight and this morning.

Seriously, WTF am I doing wrong?

@Captain 3 Droids , @Hambone and other experienced all grain brewers, what am I doing wrong here?

My own thoughts and questions:

Is my PH too high/low? - Will go pick up a PH meter later today from the local JayCar shop to test.

Is the wort being contaminated during the mash and boil by the Stock Pot I am using? I haven't passivated it, should I be doing that?

Is the wort too high in non-fermentable sugars?

Given it was 66.6% base malt (Gladfield American Ale Malt @33.3% and Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise) plus I added 500g of BrewArt Enhancer X2 (which was heated in a separate pot until dissolved and then brought to a short boil before being added to the wort at the boil) which forms 12.8% of the fermentables and the final 20.5% being adjuncts - Gladfield Big-O Malted Oats @7.7%, Gladfield Wheat Malt @7.7% and Gladfield Gladiator Malt (carapils) @5.1%

Is the SG post boil of 1.082 to high for this yeast?

Anything else that anyone can think of?

I have another grain bill ready to go this weekend and I don't want this to happen yet again. 😰

FYI, and seeking advice, comments, criticisms, etc, the next grain bill is as follows:

3M Double Hazy IPA

1.5kg Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise (42.9%)

1.0kg Gladfield Pilsner Malt (28.6%)

0.6kg Gladfield Big-O Malted Oats (17.1%)

0.4kg Gladfield Wheat Malt (11.4%)

Yeast: LalBrew Verdant IPA Yeast

Hops: Mosaic, Motueka and Moutere with Riwaka used in the boil at 10mins for some bittering.

Thanks

Pop down to Bunnings or your local hardware store this afternoon and purchase some black electrical tape.

Stick the tape over the viewing port and just let the fermentation detection algorithm do it’s thing.

Take that same roll of tape, make two fists and have your wife tape your hands together to stop you opening the lid on the Droid until the app tells you to.

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

8 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Mmm plenty of fermentable sugars. Can you do a hydrometer check now to compare with the SG of 1.082.

Yeah, I will do, I'll draw a sample from the tap and test it now.

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

1 hour ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Mmm plenty of fermentable sugars. Can you do a hydrometer check now to compare with the SG of 1.082.

Thank you @Captain 3 Droids  did as you suggested, drew a sample from the tap, let sit in the hydrometer to come to room temp and given it is 24°C and raining today in Sydney and the Droid is set for 30°C it didn't take long.

So, current gravity is 1.022

Whew, it's working!

It's funny, BrewFather predicted a final gravity of 1.020 and a post boil SG of 1.088

So current ABV is 7.88% and BrewFather predicted a final ABV 8.9%

So my mash and boil wasn't as efficient but the fermentation is looking pretty spot on with maybe a few more points to go?

A great lesson learned and yes @Dustin Frothman will have to head to Bunnings for that black tape  🤣

Thank you

[Captain 3 Droids]

1 hour ago, Dustin Frothman said:

Pop down to Bunnings or your local hardware store this afternoon and purchase some black electrical tape.

Stick the tape over the viewing port and just let the fermentation detection algorithm do it’s thing.

Take that same roll of tape, make two fists and have your wife tape your hands together to stop you opening the lid on the Droid until the app tells you to.

Not to be removed until EOF

 

 

[Dustin Frothman]

51 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Whew, it's working!

...

A great lesson learned and yes @Dustin Frothman will have to head to Bunnings for that black tape  🤣

 

[Dustin Frothman]

53 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

So my mash and boil wasn't as efficient but the fermentation is looking pretty spot on with maybe a few more points to go?

So this is where the pH reading is important. If you're achieving 5.2 - 5.6 during the mash then you're in the ballpark.

And for BIAB make sure you squeeze that bag in the lautering phase to extract all of those precious sugars.

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

33 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

So this is where the pH reading is important. If you're achieving 5.2 - 5.6 during the mash then you're in the ballpark.

And for BIAB make sure you squeeze that bag in the lautering phase to extract all of those precious sugars.

Yeah, pH was going to be my next part of the brewing process. I probably went the reverse of what a noob brewer would do and did the water profile first but for this weekends brew I will also work to get the pH right using a pH meter and lactic acid.

In terms of squeezing the bag, I did my best for a first time but I know I need to improve on that especially as I am doing the BiaB no sparge method for now and I'm absolutely positive that I left some of that precious sugar behind.

I've been watching a lot of the "TheBruSho" YouTube videos as he's a BiaB specialist with lots of handy hints and guides.

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

1 hour ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Not to be removed until EOF

 

 

I won't be showing my wife this post as I am sure she would enjoy this a little too much  🤣

[Dustin Frothman]

13 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Yeah, pH was going to be my next part of the brewing process. I probably went the reverse of what a noob brewer would do and did the water profile first but for this weekends brew I will also work to get the pH right using a pH meter and lactic acid.

In terms of squeezing the bag, I did my best for a first time but I know I need to improve on that especially as I am doing the BiaB no sparge method for now and I'm absolutely positive that I left some of that precious sugar behind.

I've been watching a lot of the "TheBruSho" YouTube videos as he's a BiaB specialist with lots of handy hints and guides.

Yeah I don't really subscribe to this "noob" theory thing because I'm not 16 ...

But I do know that I can't be an expert at anything first go and I expect to make lots of errors along the way whilst I'm learning something. I therefore set my expectations accordingly and I find that it makes the process more enjoyable for me.

I have a pH meter but haven't used it yet. I did the brewing salts thing on the first two all grain brews because the software tells you the quantities to add based on your water profile and that was straightforward. 

I took a SG reading using my refractometer a couple of times during the process, more-so just to learn how to use it. I wasn't too bothered if it was a bit off as I don't really care what the alcohol content is, just that the beer tastes good. I think the Braumeister achieves somewhere in the range of 70 - 80% efficiency and you can add or do things to improve that should you wish.

I let the Droid do all of the SG stuff anyway as that's one of the features I purchased it for. I'm not driving anywhere after a beer at home either so it's a non issue from that perspective too.

Youtube is great for learning about brewing and I've watched a bit of that channel you mentioned. His videos are helpful.

I think the most important thing that I've learned from watching a lot of stuff is that you can make brewing as complicated or as simple as you wish and both approaches can produce excellent beers.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you cook up this weekend. I need both more time and more keg space before I can get another brew going.

[Hambone]

Patience friend.

Cheers 

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

Kegged my very first All Grain NEIPA this evening. Whole kegging process went as well as possible. Filled a full 9.5l half corny plus tasting bottle.

Also followed the process developed by @Dustin Frothman, took a full glass at the start to run off the initial trub then filled the keg and finally filled the bottle. Then poured the dregs into a glass, let settle and drank the dregs as, well why waste and quite frankly... yummm!

Interestingly, tested the Final Gravity (FG) from the first sample letting it settle and get to room temp and it was....

1.022

SG 1.082 FG 1.022 = 7.88% ABV

Crazy that it hasn't changed a single point since checking it Thursaday last week when I was concerned that Fermentation had not progressed and @Captain 3 Droids suggested taking a gravity reading.

Take away 2 days dry hop and 2 days cold crash, technically fermentation had stopped last Thursday which is wow, LalBrew Voss Kveik yeast lived up to its reputation and finished fermentation in 3 days.

Crazy stuff.

Doing the Droid cleanse now and will get my 2nd all grain Hazy IPA in.

[Dustin Frothman]

11 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Also followed the process developed by @Dustin Frothman, took a full glass at the start to run off the initial trub then filled the keg

Nice one.

I can't take credit for that though; it's in the Brewart 101 videos.

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

22 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

Nice one.

I can't take credit for that though; it's in the Brewart 101 videos.

Nope, all credit given to you.

You articulated it better and made it sensible.

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

Okay so its very early so this is a very young beer as it was only kegged 3 days ago but, I couldn't help myself. I just had to have a taste and...

Wow, the colour, haze and mouth feel are absolutely spot on for a NEIPA.

The taste is there, just a bit green but another week or two and this should be perfect.

From grain to glass, this was all mine and couldn't be happier with how its turned out for my very first All Grain brew with my now deceased Droid (R.I.P.)

SG 1.082 FG 1.021 = 8.01% ABV

Edited March 4, 2022 by Wazza_wantsbeer

[Captain 3 Droids]

That does look great.

3 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

I couldn't help myself

By the  looks of it, it was worth while, great looking beer and tops to you?

[Captain 3 Droids]

5 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

with my now deceased Droid (R.I.P.)

What’s happened? (Have I missed something?)