Thiolized Yeasts

[Thagomizer]

I have recently seen promotions of "Thiolized" yeast strains.  They claim to "biotransform" compounds found in hops and malts to unlock thiols which are supposed to bring out more fruity essences.  There are several specific strains of thiolized yeast or a thiol powder addition for regular yeasts.  I found them at https://www.midwestsupplies.com/.  (Search for "Thiol" on the site.  Several products.)

Does anyone have knowledge or experience with this?  

Is this already a factor in BrewArt yeasts?

[BrewArt Team]

G 'Day Thagomizer,

Thiols are definitely the hot topic in the brewing world at the moment due to their massive aroma potential. 
Thiols are high impact aroma compounds found in Malt and Hops, (think tropical aromas of passionfruit, guava, and grapefruit) Thiols have an extremely low taste threshold and can be detected in the parts per trillion (for comparison yeast esters are detectable in the parts per million)

They can be in free form or bound precursor form. There are plenty of thiol precursors in your beer already which just need to be unlocked, to do this you need a 'thiolised yeast' to unlock the precursor thiols through biotransformation. 

Thiolised yeast have been genetically modified using CRISPR technology and unfortunately genetically modified organisms are banned in Australia. 

I would love the opportunity to play with them, but we'll have to wait for a hybrid version to be bred in a lab 'naturally'.   

So long story short, no we do not have a thiolised yeast available, but you can definitely experiment with them. Check out a product called phantasm powder if you do decide to use the yeast

We'll all be keen to hear the results! 

Cheers

[Rob Courtney]

7 hours ago, BrewArt Team said:

Thiolised yeast have been genetically modified using CRISPR technology and unfortunately genetically modified organisms are banned in Australia. 

 

Geez, when they said "things wouldn't be easy under Albenese" I never though they meant stuffing up my beer. Every election Labor moves further away from their working class roots...

[Thagomizer]

Thanks for the info.  I may experiment with this - and will be using BrewArt elements and enhancers, if so.

I hope the USA Luddites don't ruin it here.

So far, we Yanks have a choice.  Products are labelled "Non GMO" or not.  We decide.

I hope I haven't stepped on any land mines here. 🤨

Edited September 22, 2022 by Thagomizer
grammer correction

[Thagomizer]

On 20/09/2022 at 3:50 AM, Rob Courtney said:

Geez, when they said "things wouldn't be easy under Albenese" I never though they meant stuffing up my beer. Every election Labor moves further away from their working class roots...

We have the same problem with the democrat party in the USA.  They intend to control our lives in every way - all for our own good, of course.

"This is for your own good," is what I said to my former Tomcat on the way to the vet's for his little operation.  (He did live a quieter and easy life after his dates were cancelled.)

[Thagomizer]

On 19/09/2022 at 8:00 PM, BrewArt Team said:

G 'Day Thagomizer,

Thiols are definitely the hot topic in the brewing world at the moment due to their massive aroma potential. 
Thiols are high impact aroma compounds found in Malt and Hops, (think tropical aromas of passionfruit, guava, and grapefruit) Thiols have an extremely low taste threshold and can be detected in the parts per trillion (for comparison yeast esters are detectable in the parts per million)

They can be in free form or bound precursor form. There are plenty of thiol precursors in your beer already which just need to be unlocked, to do this you need a 'thiolised yeast' to unlock the precursor thiols through biotransformation. 

Thiolised yeast have been genetically modified using CRISPR technology and unfortunately genetically modified organisms are banned in Australia. 

I would love the opportunity to play with them, but we'll have to wait for a hybrid version to be bred in a lab 'naturally'.   

So long story short, no we do not have a thiolised yeast available, but you can definitely experiment with them. Check out a product called phantasm powder if you do decide to use the yeast

We'll all be keen to hear the results! 

Thanks for all the info.  I am now on a waiting list for some Phantasm Thiol Powder.  

I would appreciate suggestions on the best BrewPrints to take advantage of this product.  Although I require an occasional stout or porter, my favorite BrewPrint is Lawnmower Lager.  Other dry-hopped lagers are among my chosen brews.

Cheers. 🤨

[BrewArt Team]

On 23/09/2022 at 12:38 PM, Thagomizer said:

I am now on a waiting list for some Phantasm Thiol Powder.  

Amazing! Of course you don't need Phantasm Thiol Powder to experiment with the yeast. There are plenty of bound thiols in hops and malt already, adding Thiol powder will definitely give you more though. 

Galaxy, Citra, Mosaic, Nelson, and Sabro all have free bound thiols, so any brew with these hops in it will work. You could use the Lawn Mower Lager base, but you will obviously need to change the yeast and therefore the fermentation temps. 
 

[Thagomizer]

13 hours ago, BrewArt Team said:

Amazing! Of course you don't need Phantasm Thiol Powder to experiment with the yeast. There are plenty of bound thiols in hops and malt already, adding Thiol powder will definitely give you more though. 

Galaxy, Citra, Mosaic, Nelson, and Sabro all have free bound thiols, so any brew with these hops in it will work. You could use the Lawn Mower Lager base, but you will obviously need to change the yeast and therefore the fermentation temps. 
 

Thanks for the added information.  But then I need to find out what the new fermentation temps should be.  This is getting interesting.

[Thagomizer]

I added 1.25 oz. (31g) of Phantasm Thiol powder to a regular Lawn Mower Lager batch.  This was the simplest experiment I could devise.  Although I have been fermenting worts for decades, I have heretofore only done simple things with brewing.  For me to delve into the finer points of biochemistry is like hiring McNamara's band to play Debussy.

However, the results were sublime.  I bottled and kegged the batch yesterday.  The sample was pleasantly aromatic and slightly fruity.  I will provide details on maturity of this batch.

Happy brewing, all.  😀

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

On 05/11/2022 at 1:19 PM, Thagomizer said:

I added 1.25 oz. (31g) of Phantasm Thiol powder to a regular Lawn Mower Lager batch.  This was the simplest experiment I could devise.  Although I have been fermenting worts for decades, I have heretofore only done simple things with brewing.  For me to delve into the finer points of biochemistry is like hiring McNamara's band to play Debussy.

However, the results were sublime.  I bottled and kegged the batch yesterday.  The sample was pleasantly aromatic and slightly fruity.  I will provide details on maturity of this batch.

Happy brewing, all.  😀

How did you find the beer as it matured with the Phantasm added?

I've been using Phantasm Powder for the past 3 all grain brews I've done and I do find it really adds to the aroma of the beer but from a taste perspective, I struggle to find any major difference over time.

I've also been using various thiolized yeasts, specifically White Labs WLP077 Tropicale Yeast Blend (https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-single?id=267&type=YEAST). They have blended a number of yeasts to get around the GMO ban here in Australia.

I have to say, this is now my favourite yeast compared to say London Fog or London Ale III (e.g. 1318 from Wyeast). Been using it across the past 5-6 brews, both in combination with Phantasm and without. The brews with definitely showed a lot more tropical fruit aroma with Phantasm Powder added.

However I will say that Phantasm Powder is a bit of a pain when doing All Grain as you add it at the end of the boil and it is very difficult to filter out and add to the trub plus during fermentation, you see a lot more krausen as the residual powder adds more nucleation points.

The last thing I wanted to add in terms of Thiols, as mentioned above by the @BrewArt Team thiols are also found in the mash and mash hopping has risen in prominence among the home brewing community.

Mash hopping for those who haven't heard of it, this means adding say 60-75g (for a 23l batch) of hops strait into the mash once you have stirred in all your grains and then they mash at the desired temp (for a NEIPA/Hazy, 67-68°) for the entire 30-60 minute mash. This adds thiols to the wort and helps to free up some of the thiols in your grain.

I've tried mash hopping with both Cascade and Nelson Sauvin to great success. Personally I find this adds more longer lasting flavours to the resulting beer.

Cheers

[Thagomizer]

On 28/11/2023 at 9:34 PM, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

How did you find the beer as it matured with the Phantasm added?

As I recall, the brew aged at about four weeks, was good but not sufficiently better to justify the extra effort.  I plan to try it again sometime in the future.