Sour beer that shouldn’t be sour?!

[sssibbbaaa]

HELP!!!

My last few brews I have followed a recipe from the Hazy IPA thread but the result has been a beer that has a sour tinge to it. I don’t know where I’m going wrong.

 

I fully sanitise everything prior to putting a new brew on but keep getting the same result.

 

Any theories on where I’m going wrong would be greatly appreciated! 
 

Cheers

[Rob Courtney]

what hops are yopu using?

[sssibbbaaa]

18 hours ago, Rob Courtney said:

what hops are yopu using?

25g citra and 25g cascade. The thing is through, I just went to dry hop my current brew the other day and it already had a smell like it had also gone bad. I think the issue is creeping in before that stage. 
 

Ingredients at that stage are 2x E5 2x X2 and the Lalleland Verdant IPA yeast.

 

[Rob Courtney]

4 hours ago, sssibbbaaa said:

25g citra and 25g cascade. The thing is through, I just went to dry hop my current brew the other day and it already had a smell like it had also gone bad. I think the issue is creeping in before that stage. 
 

Ingredients at that stage are 2x E5 2x X2 and the Lalleland Verdant IPA yeast.

 

I may be off mark here and I'd be happy with @Wazza_wantsbeer @Thagomizer @J P  @Dustin Frothmanto have input but i always run every couple of months a PBW through the Droid. I mean I sanatise through every brew but I do PBW (soak the droid for a few hours) as it seeks and gets rid of stuff you might just not be getting to. 

I had something similar happen as you are describing and that is what I went with after some research (asking @Captain 3 Droids and then looking on the computer)

[Rob Courtney]

Just tryimng the first beer I brewed since the PBW clean.

Yeah, I think that is the issue

[sssibbbaaa]

2 hours ago, Rob Courtney said:

Just tryimng the first beer I brewed since the PBW clean.

Yeah, I think that is the issue

Really appreciate your help! Excuse my ignorance but what’s a PBW clean?

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

7 hours ago, sssibbbaaa said:

Really appreciate your help! Excuse my ignorance but what’s a PBW clean?

@sssibbbaaa PBW is Powerful Brewery Wash.

There are a number of variants of this available on the market such as the StellarClean PBW from Kegland.

PBW is a mix of different chemicals such as Sodium Percarbonate as well as others that help to remove organic material from things like fermenters, kegs, breweries such as my Nano, etc.

Usually you mix it with hot water and let soak. It can soak for a few hours to a day or more without causing harm as long as you are using the right amount as per the directions.

I use this every time after I brew to clean my Droid and then before filling I will use StellarSan to sanitize my Droid.

So think of PBW as your cleaner and then something like StarSan or StellarSan as your sanitizer.

So a cleaning routine looks something like this:

At the end of fermentation and filling keg(s), bottles, etc., there will always be trub left at the bottom and usually a ring of dried krausen (dead yeast) near the top of the droid.

I get the trub out but either scooping it up or if liquid enough, remove the tap and pouring it out that hole and then remove the plug below the tap to get the last of it out. You can use the @Captain 3 Droids  method here using a spatula to help push the thick mess out the tap and plug holes.

Then I use clean water rinse out as much of the remaining matter and again, pouring out of the hole where the tap goes into.

Then I put the plug and tap back into the droid, fill to a couple of litres and using a good soft cloth like a microfiber cloth to wipe it all down. After wiping it down, let the water out and then rinse with some fresh water.

Then I fill the Droid, with warm to hot water add PBW when half way up, stir and then fill to the top of the Droid so that it's lapping out the venting port on the left side. Put the lid on and then just let it sit. I will often let it sit for a day or so just because I'm a bit lazy unless I have a brew ready to go in in which case I'll let it sit for a minimum of an hour.

Then drain out the PBW, fill Droid again with warm water and this time add Star/StellarSan. I fill with almost all the warm water first and then add the StellarSan at the end as if you add it too early, the agitation of adding water will cause it to foam up. Again, fill to the point where it is lapping out the vent port, put the lid on and let sit for a minimum of 15 minutes but I like 30 minutes to an hour. You can also let the StellarSan sit in your Droid for many days without causing any issue as long as you've kept to the recommended 1.5ml per litre.

Drain and you're ready to fill with fresh brewed wort or water and BrewArt Ingredients.

If you're in a real hurry, the minimum times I would use would be 30 minutes soak with PBW and 15 minutes with StellarSan but in my opinion, I like to use each for an hour as I had a really bad infected beer once in the Droid and since then I've adopted this cleaning routine and have not had an issue since.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[J P]

All good advice above.  In fact seems fool proof.  
 

another possibility is not fully disassembling the tap head and plug gaskets and lid seal gasket.  Those things all can keep little bits of crud that would be a a bacterial haven… 

I also keep hand sanitiser next to brewing equipment.  I first wash hands with soap and water (gets rid of bacterial spores etc) followed by hand sanitizer.   
 

our hands are the usual culprits in terms of spreading bugs.  
 

do NOT recommend the Donald Trump intravenous sanitizer method as it’s been shown to result in catastrophic human and beer failures.   🤣

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

8 minutes ago, J P said:

All good advice above.  In fact seems fool proof.  
 

another possibility is not fully disassembling the tap head and plug gaskets and lid seal gasket.  Those things all can keep little bits of crud that would be a a bacterial haven… 

I also keep hand sanitiser next to brewing equipment.  I first wash hands with soap and water (gets rid of bacterial spores etc) followed by hand sanitizer.   
 

our hands are the usual culprits in terms of spreading bugs.  
 

do NOT recommend the Donald Trump intravenous sanitizer method as it’s been shown to result in catastrophic human and beer failures.   🤣

Absolutely spot on @J P

A likely cause of infection is us and how we handle and touch things, often without even noticing.

Like you, I keep gel hand sanitiser and two spray bottles, one each of StellarSan and Super Kill Ethyl Sanitiser spray which I pick up from my local home brew shop.

As someone who works in Health where hand hygiene is continually reinforced, I first wash my hands and wrists with soap for a minimum of 90-120 seconds then I use hand sanitiser regularly as well as spraying both the Ethyl and StellarSan on the surface where I am working and then on everything prior to handling and then once the lid is on the Droid, I even spray around the lid aiming at the small opening at the bottom of the lid.

[Rob Courtney]

Thanks guys, great advice

[Rob Courtney]

 

22 hours ago, sssibbbaaa said:

Really appreciate your help! Excuse my ignorance but what’s a PBW clean?

[Rob Courtney]

14 hours ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

@sssibbbaaa PBW is Powerful Brewery Wash.

There are a number of variants of this available on the market such as the StellarClean PBW from Kegland.

PBW is a mix of different chemicals such as Sodium Percarbonate as well as others that help to remove organic material from things like fermenters, kegs, breweries such as my Nano, etc.

Usually you mix it with hot water and let soak. It can soak for a few hours to a day or more without causing harm as long as you are using the right amount as per the directions.

I use this every time after I brew to clean my Droid and then before filling I will use StellarSan to sanitize my Droid.

So think of PBW as your cleaner and then something like StarSan or StellarSan as your sanitizer.

So a cleaning routine looks something like this:

At the end of fermentation and filling keg(s), bottles, etc., there will always be trub left at the bottom and usually a ring of dried krausen (dead yeast) near the top of the droid.

I get the trub out but either scooping it up or if liquid enough, remove the tap and pouring it out that hole and then remove the plug below the tap to get the last of it out. You can use the @Captain 3 Droids  method here using a spatula to help push the thick mess out the tap and plug holes.

Then I use clean water rinse out as much of the remaining matter and again, pouring out of the hole where the tap goes into.

Then I put the plug and tap back into the droid, fill to a couple of litres and using a good soft cloth like a microfiber cloth to wipe it all down. After wiping it down, let the water out and then rinse with some fresh water.

Then I fill the Droid, with warm to hot water add PBW when half way up, stir and then fill to the top of the Droid so that it's lapping out the venting port on the left side. Put the lid on and then just let it sit. I will often let it sit for a day or so just because I'm a bit lazy unless I have a brew ready to go in in which case I'll let it sit for a minimum of an hour.

Then drain out the PBW, fill Droid again with warm water and this time add Star/StellarSan. I fill with almost all the warm water first and then add the StellarSan at the end as if you add it too early, the agitation of adding water will cause it to foam up. Again, fill to the point where it is lapping out the vent port, put the lid on and let sit for a minimum of 15 minutes but I like 30 minutes to an hour. You can also let the StellarSan sit in your Droid for many days without causing any issue as long as you've kept to the recommended 1.5ml per litre.

Drain and you're ready to fill with fresh brewed wort or water and BrewArt Ingredients.

If you're in a real hurry, the minimum times I would use would be 30 minutes soak with PBW and 15 minutes with StellarSan but in my opinion, I like to use each for an hour as I had a really bad infected beer once in the Droid and since then I've adopted this cleaning routine and have not had an issue since.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Really good advice because at the end of the day, we are only brewing because we like drinking beer, so if we are going to do it, may as well have great beer each time.

[Thagomizer]

This is all excellent advice and guidance.  The several sanitizing and sterilizing procedures for the droid are all effective.  The only thing I can add is that the temperature of the hot-water soak for sterilizing should not exceed 40^oC (or 104^oF).

[sssibbbaaa]

Really appreciate the advice gents! Just ordered my PBW and can’t wait to get back on track, brewing some tasty drops! 
 

Cheers 🍻

[sssibbbaaa]

Just thinking about it, guided by the advice above, things started going pear shaped when I ran out of the droid cleanse tablets I had and started using the sanitiser I use for my bottles etc. I thought it would be much of a muchness but seems like it was probably my downfall. 
 

A mistake I won’t make again, thanks to you legends!