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Transferring from Droid to Stainless kegs


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36 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Looks ok however best judgement would be to taste a sample, assume you did and was it ok?

Now I’d purge the keg, chill then force carb with Co2 to get it in there. Sample before Xmas day and decide to use or leave to mature further.

I'm really time poor today, crazy busy day at work and so I decided to use the primer instead.

  • I opened the 1/2 corny after sanitising
  • dropped in the 2 BrewArt Primers
  • added more CO2 then purged

Now trying to do the closed transfer but now the beer is not moving from the Droid into the keg.

I'm using a 9,5l keg king keg. I've got the liquid transfer cable I got from iKegger. I'm using the "Out" post on the keg (which I understand to be the liquid port" but it is refusing to fill. I've purged all the gas from the keg, I've even got a gas disconnect on the "In" post which is supposed to be the gas post.

What the hell am I doing wrong now?

😫

Edited by Wazza_wantsbeer
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1 minute ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

I'm really time poor today, crazy busy day at work and so I decided to use the primer instead.

  • I opened the 1/2 corny after sanitising
  • dropped in the 2 BrewArt Primers
  • added more CO2 then purged

Now trying to do the closed transfer but now the beer is not moving from the Droid into the keg.

I'm using a 9,5l keg king keg. I've got the liquid transfer cable I got from iKegger. I'm using the "Out" post on the keg (which I understand to be the liquid port" but it is refusing to fill. I've purged all the gas from the keg, I've even got a gas disconnect on the "Out" post which is supposed to be the gas post.

What the hell am I doing wrong now?

😫

You’ve just got an air bubble somewhere.

Disconnect your dry hop filter and filler line and start again.

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1 minute ago, Dustin Frothman said:

You’ve just got an air bubble somewhere.

Disconnect your dry hop filter and filler line and start again.

Great, will try that, thanks @Dustin Frothman

I've tried a few times removing the hop filter and that is not the issue. I hadn't tried removing the line as yet. Will try now.

By the way, have I got that right? 

"Out" post is liquid, "In" post is gas but they actually go both ways, i.e., the Out liquid post is used to fill the keg?

 

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Just now, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Great, will try that, thanks @Dustin Frothman

I've tried a few times removing the hop filter and that is not the issue. I hadn't tried removing the line as yet. Will try now.

By the way, have I got that right? 

"Out" post is liquid, "In" post is gas but they actually go both ways, i.e., the Out liquid post is used to fill the keg?

 

Yes that’s correct.

The gas post has little notches in it too - a handy way to identify it.

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49 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

You’ve just got an air bubble somewhere.

Disconnect your dry hop filter and filler line and start again.

Removed both, got the remaining liquid out of the line but pressing the little peg inside the connect. Re-sanitised by putting into StellarSan for a good 5 minutes and then reattached to the keg and Droid.

The beer moved quickly in and then stopped.

Yes, I have the release valve turned 90 degrees to keep that open and even when I pull it, there is no gas left inside so I don't understand why the keg isn't filling.

So frustrated now as I don't understand what has happened and why the keg is refusing to fill.

😭

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Just now, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Removed both, got the remaining liquid out of the line but pressing the little peg inside the connect. Re-sanitised by putting into StellarSan for a good 5 minutes and then reattached to the keg and Droid.

The beer moved quickly in and then stopped.

Yes, I have the release valve turned 90 degrees to keep that open and even when I pull it, there is no gas left inside so I don't understand why the keg isn't filling.

So frustrated now as I don't understand what has happened and why the keg is refusing to fill.

😭

It’s quite slow with 4mm ID beer line and the length iKegger supply is long too.

So it’s probably just gravity working against you. Keep gently manipulating the beer line to allow gravity to do it’s thing.

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1 minute ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Correct Dustin. Receiving keg must be lower than the Droid tap and ensure the pressure release valve on the keg is open or you have a gas disconnect on the in post so that as the beer fills the keg the air/Co2 can escape.

Both done, my standard keg filling routine. Still not running out of the Droid to Keg at all.

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3 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Both done, my standard keg filling routine. Still not running out of the Droid to Keg at all.

Ok, elimination time. You need to check:-

. Is the tap blocked?

. Is the hose clear? 

. If both ok then it has to be the actual disconnect on the keg, undo and check that the poppet is clear and the long dip tube.

. remember to re sanitise.

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Tap is not blocked, removed the hop filter and checked that by opening tap and the flow is normal so not an issue

Repeatedly cleaned out the hop filter and re-sanitized

Hose is clear, I've removed both ends from keg and Droid then I press on the post in the connect letting air into the line, the liquid inside runs out easily

There is some beer in the keg already as it ran for a bit before it stopped.

Not sure how to check the poppet and long dip tube as that is connected to the "Out" post and anchored to the bottom of the keg.

Thinking maybe the poppet has been blocked by a bit of hop stuff that got thru the hop filter?

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3 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Not sure how to check the poppet and long dip tube as that is connected to the "Out" post and anchored to the bottom of the keg.

 

You need a spanner or the like to undo the out post on the keg, this will expose the dip tube which you can pull out and the inside of the post being a spring and the sealing plug.

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The fall back option is to fill it straight out of the hose through the lid opening. Yes there's exposure to oxygen for a few minutes. But a proper purge with CO2 will see this remedied. 

After all I've been filling kegs this way for years from a plastic fermenter without issue. 

Good luck.

Cheers 

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pale_ale.thumb.jpg.a8eb92fd55c9e43d5877484321ebc2ba.jpg

keg_fill.thumb.jpg.2b68e89470d3101b24ebf38db395b543.jpg

 

Some great advice here from @Hamboneand @Captain 3 Droids - two very experienced keggers!

I know we're clogging up our thread with off topic stuff but I guess this happens sometimes. @Captain 3 Droids can move all the posts later if he likes. 😛

I just thought I'd provide two photos for @Wazza_wantsbeerthat may help or provide some perspective. 

I'm kegging a brew this morning too. The first photo is the tap draw for a Coopers Pale Ale with 60g of dry hops. It looks like crap but you can see that the very top layer of beer in the glass is nice and clear and what you would expect. Most importantly it smelled and tasted right.

Wazza's wide and shallow Pyrex jug will not be helping him judge that first draw of the brew. Perhaps you could use a tall glass like mine?

The second photo is my keg filling. The 4mm internal diameter line means that under gravity feed only the beer is working against some serious resistance and will take a while to flow. I could shorten the line which would help but it doesn't really bother me. So instead I wrap the line up into a coil/helix to help the fluid accelerate as it falls. Towards the end of the fill as the head pressure is starting to reduce things slow down a bit. I just gently manipulate the beer line to help the beer on it's way. Eventually the Droid will burp and you'll see an air bubble or two and then you're done. This method will not be as fast as filling directly with silicon hose through the lid of the keg.

Finally, it's worth noting that before filling the keg I've already filled a Brewart PET bottle. I do this for a few reasons but one of the advantages is that if there's any errant hop matter making its way through the filter then there's not any real consequence. A stuck keg poppet as mentioned above is a pain.

At risk of sounding like a broken record, I would highly recommend switching to the blue bouncer filter insert as the gauge is much finer and nothing gets through. The Brewart supplied one is a little too coarse. I think there's an opportunity here for Brewart to expand the product line and supply some additional filters.

 

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Thanks @Captain 3 Droids , best to have it's own thread.

So I tired as much as I could think of without having to unscrew the post.

The key thing for me was that I removed iKegger attachment from Droid, plugged my CO2 source into the gas post and then reversed the flow out of the keg and it worked, not a problem.

So I thought to myself, great, that should have fixed the problem by blowing any obstruction out of the post/poppet as the beer that made it into then flowed freely out of the keg into a container... which I drank because by god by then I needed a bloody drink!

Then put it all back, removed CO2 source, released the gas, opened the tap and then... nothing. Nothing flowed from Droid into the keg.

Seriously, WTF???

I ended up using the method recommended by @Hambone and @Captain 3 Droids  and opened the keg, used some spare line and did an open transfer. Once the transfer was completed, closed the lid and pumped the CO2 into the keg, releasing gas as I went.

Then ran out of CO2 as this was my spare Sodastream cannister because I had a connector rupture/split on my second regulator which was gassing the HAZY IPA on Friday last week and lost so much gas.

Do you think it possible I ended up with a defective post on this brand new Keg King 9.5 Litre Ball Lock Passivated Finish keg

So frustrated right now. 

 

Edited by Wazza_wantsbeer
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beer_line_cleaner.thumb.jpg.c7ce391ad242a0d631aa387768d60e86.jpg

@Wazza_wantsbeerI know you're trying to keep your gear footprint fairly small, but let's face it you're probably going to buy/build a kegerator at some point.

You mentioned in your posts above the hassle of cleaning and re-sanitsing your beer line quickly.

Make yourself a setup like this using a cheap garden pressure sprayer from the Big Green Warehouse ($11*) and a plastic carbonation cap ($4*) from wherever you can get one.

Cut off the sprayer wand and jam the plastic hose onto the barb of the carbonation cap - you don't even need a hose clamp but you can use one if you wish. Fill the sprayer with sodium percarbonate for cleaning or your choice of sanitiser for sanitising. Pump it up, connect and let the pressure do the work. It's simple, cheap and quick. You will then have a tool to clean the beer lines in your kegerator too.

*prices are approximate

** Don't mind the ugly colours of my laundry bench top

 

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3 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

beer_line_cleaner.thumb.jpg.c7ce391ad242a0d631aa387768d60e86.jpg

@Wazza_wantsbeerI know you're trying to keep your gear footprint fairly small, but let's face it you're probably going to buy/build a kegerator at some point.

You mentioned in your posts above the hassle of cleaning and re-sanitsing your beer line quickly.

Make yourself a setup like this using a cheap garden pressure sprayer from the Big Green Warehouse ($11*) and a plastic carbonation cap ($4*) from wherever you can get one.

Cut off the sprayer wand and jam the plastic hose onto the barb of the carbonation cap - you don't even need a hose clamp but you can use one if you wish. Fill the sprayer with sodium percarbonate for cleaning or your choice of sanitiser for sanitising. Pump it up, connect and let the pressure do the work. It's simple, cheap and quick. You will then have a tool to clean the beer lines in your kegerator too.

*prices are approximate

** Don't mind the ugly colours of my laundry bench top

 

That looks like a good way to clean your lines, will definitely get to that for sure.

Also like the idea of using that bucket to keep things clean and tidy as today, because as I got more frustrated, the more mistakes I made such as putting the hop basket off the tap with the bloody tap still open. IDIOT!

Edited by Wazza_wantsbeer
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2 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Then ran out of CO2 as this was my spare Sodastream cannister because I had a connector rupture/split on my second regulator which was gassing the HAZY IPA on Friday last week and lost so much gas.

Do you think it possible I ended up with a defective post on this brand new Keg King 9.5 Litre Ball Lock Passivated Finish keg

So frustrated right now. 

 

Bugger.

Possibly and now the keg is full of beer. Hopefully it's not a pain again when it comes time to pour.

If the Brewart guys and girls are reading this they're probably having a laugh and saying "and this is why we designed the Brewflo". 😅 

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6 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Do you think it possible I ended up with a defective post on this brand new Keg King 9.5 Litre Ball Lock Passivated Finish keg

As the the beer flowed out ok from the out post it would suggest it’s ok. I’m wondering if it’s not the Ikegger disconnect that’s at fault and the spear inside is not long enough to properly open up the post ie not forcing the opening down onto the spring. 
Check it with another beer out disconnect. Also is it a “sloppy” fit?

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1 hour ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Also like the idea of using that bucket to keep things clean and tidy as today, because as I got more frustrated, the more mistakes I made such as putting the hop basket off the tap with the bloody tap still open. IDIOT!

Yes we've certainly all been there!

The cheap plastic basin is good insurance.

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1 hour ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

As the the beer flowed out ok from the out post it would suggest it’s ok. I’m wondering if it’s not the Ikegger disconnect that’s at fault and the spear inside is not long enough to properly open up the post ie not forcing the opening down onto the spring. 
Check it with another beer out disconnect. Also is it a “sloppy” fit?

Yeah that is the thing @C3D I used exactly the same iKegger to Droid Dry Hop Filter connector and the beer came out fine.

This one, https://www.ikegger.com/collections/lines-adapters-and-spares/products/beerdroid-hopping-basket-connection-with-line-and-liquid-disconnect

I had also used the same connector when sanitising the keg... 2 litres of warm water, 3 ml StellarSan, shake, leave stand for 20 minutes, connect gas line and connect iKegger Dry Hop Filter connector and it comes out better than a 18 year's stream after 6 pints.

Thinking it might be the connector, with the iKegger Droid kit, you also get a connector which allows you to just shove the end up the tap of the Droid and this too didn't work.

FYI... The other one included in the iKegger set is just a liquid connector a line without anything on the end.

So I am thinking I've ruled out the liquid connector being faulty as it works in the "out" direction fine. When going "in" the bloody thing didn't work and that was using two different liquid connectors.

I'm pretty good at problem solving and working thru the different variables as that's been most of my work in IT. So I tried to change every single variable and nothing worked going in through that liquid post on my KK Keg.

I can only think that there is something stopping the liquid going into the keg but doesn't impact it going out which does my head in.

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