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At it again today as yes, I've ordered a Fermzilla but also Liam has just advised me that he can send a sample stock Droid my way as mine gets fixed or replaced.

So this time went with a variation of David Health's NEIPA 2.0. I changed up the hops based on the ones I had from that failed Hazy IPA which went all funky.

And had to vary the grain bill based on what was available but keeping to the original recipe as best I could.

So, the grain bill for this one is as follows:

1.5 kg (41.7%) — Simpsons Pale Ale Low Colour Maris Otter — Grain — 3 EBC

1.2 kg (33.3%) — BestMalz Pilsen Malt — Grain — 3.5 EBC

300 g (8.3%) — Blue Lake Maltings Gladfield Rolled Oats (BLM) — Grain — 5.5 EBC

300 g (8.3%) — Gladfield Wheat Malt — Grain — 4.2 EBC

150 g (4.2%) — BestMalz Acidulated — Grain — 6 EBC

150 g (4.2%) — BestMalz Caramel Pils — Grain — 5 EBC

Hops

15 g (22 IBU) — Eclipse 17.2% — Boil — 10 min

20 g (4 IBU) — Amarillo 9.2% — Aroma — 30 min hopstand @ 75 °C

20 g (6 IBU) — Galaxy 14% — Aroma — 30 min hopstand @ 75 °C

20 g (6 IBU) — Idaho #7 13% — Aroma — 30 min hopstand @ 75 °C

70 minute mash for this as I was struggling with maintaining temperature and kept overshooting and then undershooting when waiting for it to cool.

Boil like last time was 30 minutes and then did a hop stand of 30 minutes starting @80°C but with the mash pot in a water bath (sink filled with cold water) so it hit 75°C quickly then I removed from water bath and let stand for the remainder of the 30 minutes giving it a vigorous stir every 6-7 minutes to mimic a "whirlpool".

The grains were sourced from Hop and Grain this time and the milling was spot on, so much so that I went just above the estimated pre-boil gravity in BrewFather of 1.076 with an actual pre-boil gravity of 1.078. Pretty impressed with myself as that was estimated based on a Brewhouse Efficiency of 75%.

Forgot to take another reading before putting the wort into the Cube but I can take it another reading before it goes into a fermenter.

Also interesting, the pH as estimated in BrewFather of 5.25 was spot on and I didn't have to add a thing which shows that David Heath knows his stuff as in his YouTube video, he by using an Acidulated Malt, you can hit your target pH which out additions of Lactic or Acid or Phosphoric Acid.

Feeling really comfortable with these brew days now, got my systems and steps really dialed in now.

This one will definitely go into the Fermzilla and I plan on using Fermentis US-05 for this one as it will go into our storage cage which is located on Basement 1 and keeps a very constant 24°C. US-05 is best performing between 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F) which is spot on for the cage.

When I get the Droid from Liam, I plan on doing another Cider in that one so will keep two brews going at any one time. Not quite Wazza2Droids but hey, I now have two fermenters and I can experiment in the Fermzilla and go with the tried and true in the Droid... Best of both worlds I'm thinking  😎

And for @Dustin Frothman boy did I give my bag one hell of a squeezing, so much so that I am so sore right now 🤣

Cheers  🍺

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Edited by Wazza_wantsbeer
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  • Wazza_wantsbeer changed the title to All Grain Brew Day #3 - David Heath's NEIPA 2.0 (Double)
5 hours ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

At it again today as yes, I've ordered a Fermzilla

We’re going to need a new sub forum:

Brewing without any BrewArt products

😜

In all seriousness, nice one and I’m looking forward to seeing how this one turns out as well.

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4 hours ago, Dustin Frothman said:

@Wazza_wantsbeeryou mentioned the ph reading of your wort. Are you using the Kegland Beverage Doctor? If so, do you find it accurate and easy to use?

No, I purchased the pH meter from Jaycar...

https://www.jaycar.com.au/hand-held-ph-meter/p/QM1670?gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0LIKOmy0pNGOnrqRr3o0M_vSBEQBoaDeSDVOVazRJCurihCzq7rZ4xoCAIMQAvD_BwE

Not sure how accurate it is but it is meant to be pretty good.

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1 hour ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

No, I purchased the pH meter from Jaycar...

https://www.jaycar.com.au/hand-held-ph-meter/p/QM1670?gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0LIKOmy0pNGOnrqRr3o0M_vSBEQBoaDeSDVOVazRJCurihCzq7rZ4xoCAIMQAvD_BwE

Not sure how accurate it is but it is meant to be pretty good.

Gotcha. Looks like basically the same thing just more expensive.

I acquired mine second hand but the prob had dried out so bought a replacment probe but am yet to try it out in anger.

 

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Posted (edited)

Have to sneak this in here.

All grain brew No.3 went into its new home yesterday.

20220314_161547.thumb.jpg.d7079b773e49b763e2e24ce8dc3f188f.jpg

As I mentioned, using Fermentis US-05 for this as the storage cage sits at a constant(ish) 24°C.

Smells amazing. Fermenting under pressure but low pressure only at 3 psi.

Will have to look at doing some 19 litre BIAB brews soon.

Also good news from Liam, a temporary replacement Droid is on its way and from the MyPost app, should be arriving this week. As soon as it arrives it will be put to work on my next Cider for my lovely wife.

Edited by Wazza_wantsbeer
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16 hours ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Have to sneak this in here.

All grain brew No.3 went into its new home yesterday.

20220314_161547.thumb.jpg.d7079b773e49b763e2e24ce8dc3f188f.jpg

As I mentioned, using Fermentis US-05 for this as the storage cage sits at a constant(ish) 24°C.

Smells amazing. Fermenting under pressure but low pressure only at 3 psi.

Will have to look at doing some 19 litre BIAB brews soon.

Also good news from Liam, a temporary replacement Droid is on its way and from the MyPost app, should be arriving this week. As soon as it arrives it will be put to work on my next Cider for my lovely wife.

I reckon you’re likely to want some temperature control on that bad boy eventually.

RAPT fermentation fridge on order?

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54 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

I reckon you’re likely to want some temperature control on that bad boy eventually.

RAPT fermentation fridge on order?

With you. Correct me if I’m wrong but the idea of these units are an all in one fermenter, come carbonation, come serving/consuming unit? So you need the fridge, a fridge temperature controller (eg ink bird unit) so you can set fermentation/cold chill/serving temperatures. Plus a spunding valve to set your dispensing pressure.

Now to me unless you do this you should just use a normal plastic fermenter in a mini fridge set at fermentation temperature.

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1 minute ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

With you. Correct me if I’m wrong but the idea of these units are an all in one fermenter, come carbonation, come serving/consuming unit? So you need the fridge, a fridge temperature controller (eg ink bird unit) so you can set fermentation/cold chill/serving temperatures. Plus a spunding valve to set your dispensing pressure.

Now to me unless you do this you should just use a normal plastic fermenter in a mini fridge set at fermentation temperature.

Would probably be quite nice to have an app to tell you in real time how the fermentation and brew temperature is tracking too …

Rapt Pill as well?

🎣

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40 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but the idea of these units are an all in one fermenter, come carbonation, come serving/consuming unit?

They’re useful for pressure fermenting if you’re chasing a particular style or flavour profile like Wazza is doing. There’s also the ability to drop the yeast cake easily if you wish to re-use your yeast. Dry hopping can be a bit tricky but there’s some solutions with magnets etc. and their new design uses a hop cannon (or bong as they’re calling it) to add your hop pellets into the brew without introducing oxygen.

Like all things home brewing it’s a bit of a rabbit hole because once you buy one of these you realise that suddenly you “need” a bunch of other kit to look after the various brewing functions.

I’m just stirring with my other two posts but if it was me I’d probably want to control the fermentation temperature somehow.

Considering that the fermentation itself produces heat; even if the ambient temperature is stable and the yeast can handle fermentation at higher temperatures under pressure, there’s still going to be significant fluctuations of temperature in the vessel as the fermentation completes and this may affect the taste of your beer.

Definitely worth the experiment though and I’m keen to see the results.

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2 hours ago, Dustin Frothman said:

I reckon you’re likely to want some temperature control on that bad boy eventually.

RAPT fermentation fridge on order?

Haha, yeah good point and tempted but... those RAPT fridges are definitely not cheap.

For now, I have to say that I am happy with an ambient temperature consistently around 24C in our storage cage which sits under ground level so should keep consistent regardless of air temps.

When it comes time to dry hop and then cold crash, I will empty the kegs from the Kegerator and put it in there for two days before I keg.

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1 hour ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

With you. Correct me if I’m wrong but the idea of these units are an all in one fermenter, come carbonation, come serving/consuming unit? So you need the fridge, a fridge temperature controller (eg ink bird unit) so you can set fermentation/cold chill/serving temperatures. Plus a spunding valve to set your dispensing pressure.

Now to me unless you do this you should just use a normal plastic fermenter in a mini fridge set at fermentation temperature.

@Captain 3 Droids I do have a spunding valve, just not in the picture above as that picture was just after getting it into position and I wanted to let it get a bit of internal pressure built up to help set the spunding valve to the desired pressure level. I also hadn't added the thermometer strip either at the time. The picture below shows both.

I have set the pressure on the spunding valve to 3 psi as I don't want any more than that. I may crank that a bit later but probably only to Keg.

20220316_081753.thumb.jpg.70c19c9da56fb269b1cb9364ac6db736.jpgThis pic

 

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4 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

@Captain 3 Droids I do have a spunding valve, just not in the picture above as that picture was just after getting it into position and I wanted to let it get a bit of internal pressure built up to help set the spunding valve to the desired pressure level. I also hadn't added the thermometer strip either at the time. The picture below shows both.

I have set the pressure on the spunding valve to 3 psi as I don't want any more than that. I may crank that a bit later but probably only to Keg.

20220316_081753.thumb.jpg.70c19c9da56fb269b1cb9364ac6db736.jpgThis pic

 

So is that the new version Fermzilla or the older one that they’re currently running out cheaply and people online are getting upset about?

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1 hour ago, Dustin Frothman said:

Would probably be quite nice to have an app to tell you in real time how the fermentation and brew temperature is tracking too …

Rapt Pill as well?

🎣

Long term maybe but...

Those RAPT pills are expensive and don't work well if fermenting under pressure.

Whilst I am not fermenting under high pressure so the RAPT issue with pressure isn't really applicable, I don't really see the value in that right now.

One thing I will definitely do in future however is to make an adjustment with my recipes and make sure that I set my BrewFather and BIAB to produce 11 litres of wort rather than the 10 litres we do for the Droid so that I can take regular samples to test the gravity without impacting final volumes too much.

I'm already finding using the all grain BIAB with the Droid is that I was a bit down on final volume when kegging.

Honestly, next investment will likely be a bigger BIAB setup with valve and temperature gage or an all in one like BrewZilla or Guten or...

As I think that is where I can get the most value from my investments in the Droid and FermZilla.

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Just now, Dustin Frothman said:

So is that the new version Fermzilla or the older one that they’re currently running out cheaply and people online are getting upset about?

Went the older version and picked it up cheaply because the new version is out and quite frankly, I didn't think it was worth the premium over what the FermZilla used to RRP for.

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57 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

I'm already finding using the all grain BIAB with the Droid is that I was a bit down on final volume when kegging.

Yes that's certainly a thing and I found the same with my setup.

If you can get 11 litres into the fermenter then you should be right.

Can your cubes hold more than 10 litres?

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1 hour ago, Dustin Frothman said:

They’re useful for pressure fermenting if you’re chasing a particular style or flavour profile like Wazza is doing. There’s also the ability to drop the yeast cake easily if you wish to re-use your yeast. Dry hopping can be a bit tricky but there’s some solutions with magnets etc. and their new design uses a hop cannon (or bong as they’re calling it) to add your hop pellets into the brew without introducing oxygen.

Like all things home brewing it’s a bit of a rabbit hole because once you buy one of these you realise that suddenly you “need” a bunch of other kit to look after the various brewing functions.

I’m just stirring with my other two posts but if it was me I’d probably want to control the fermentation temperature somehow.

Considering that the fermentation itself produces heat; even if the ambient temperature is stable and the yeast can handle fermentation at higher temperatures under pressure, there’s still going to be significant fluctuations of temperature in the vessel as the fermentation completes and this may affect the taste of your beer.

Definitely worth the experiment though and I’m keen to see the results.

Thank you @Dustin Frothman, you've nailed it with this post.

Given the styles of beer I prefer being West Coast IPAs and East Coast IPAs (Hazies and NEIPAs) this type of fermentation gives me a lot more flexibility and scope to experiment.

And the fact that I can ferment under pressure and do a closed transfer using that pressure into a keg that has been purged of oxygen means I can greatly lower the risk of any potential oxidisation that is so harmful to these types of beers.

I definitely take on board your points about controlled temperature and variations within the vessel itself. I did purchase the FermZilla jacket at the same time and will look to wrap up the FermZilla a future brew and see how that turns out, especially if using the Voss Kviek yeast. Maybe an investment in a heat belt or some such in the future as we get colder with winter coming.

In terms of Dry Hopping, I think I will start with using the top of the FermZilla, open, toss in the hops, close and then madly purge with CO2. In the future I will definitely try using the trub collection container.

In terms of cold crashing, the plan is to dry hop, leave for 24 hrs, then remove the kegs from my Kegerator, put the FermZilla in and cold crash at 4C for 2 days then keg.

I would think that the kegs will be okay for 2 days out of the Kegerator and if I really get thirsty, I have the tap and mini reg/soda stream bottle from the iKegger set which I can use to pour myself a beer or 3.

Going back to dry hopping, I do know from the reviews that many find it a messy operation to remove that trub container but... I have the luxury of having a car wash bay in our apartment complex that will make it easier and less messy, or at least easier to clean up.

The steps will be: remove and clean out the trub container, sterilise and then add hops, screw back on, purge with CO2, and open up the bottom valve. I did buy the pressure fermenting package and extra Plastic Carbonation Caps to do this.

I also plan to clean the FermZilla post kegging in the car wash bay keeping things nice and easy. Remove lid at the top and trub collection container at the bottom. Hose out everything,  taking care to rinse out any bits from the plastic bits, re-attached trub collection container then fill halfway, add PBW and Sodium Percarbonate to clean, rinse thoroughly, then fill half way with StellarSan for a final steralising.

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37 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

Yes that's certainly a thing and I found the same with my setup.

If you can get 11 litres into the fermenter then you should be right.

Can your cubes hold more than 10 litres?

Yeah, I figure 11 litres is right for either fermenter, especially with all grain.

Yes, I think that is part of the problem at the moment, I am filling the cube which is meant to be 10 litres but the hot wort doesn't fill it and I'm sure it is around the 10 litre mark at the end of the boil. I think the damn thing holds about 11 litres or more but need to check that.

So what I've been doing is adding some more of the PureAU right at the end to get the cube filled as much as possible to avoid air space. Not sure if this is the right thing to do or not but it's the only thing I could think of at the time?

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30 minutes ago, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

So what I've been doing is adding some more of the PureAU right at the end to get the cube filled as much as possible to avoid air space. Not sure if this is the right thing to do or not but it's the only thing I could think of at the time?

There's nothing wrong with doing that but you are obviously reducing the gravity of your wort by that dilution, so it will affect the targets you're trying to hit with your recipe.

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This is all white interesting.  
 

I tried Kveik once.  
 

it was like letting a Viking loose on the GOAT print in a small cage.   It killed all the subtle beauty of the GOAT and I never tried it again….   
 

 

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7 minutes ago, J P said:

This is all white interesting.  
 

I tried Kveik once.  
 

it was like letting a Viking loose on the GOAT print in a small cage.   It killed all the subtle beauty of the GOAT and I never tried it again….   
 

 

That’s really interesting.

I have a packet of Kveik in the fridge that I received as a freebie but am yet to work out what to use it on yet.

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