Brewing using Kveik...

[H3nDo]

G'day all.

Just wondering if anyone else has any experience using Kveik in the beerdroid?

Having used Lallemand Voss Kveik yeast a lot myself recently I have come to question the validity of the Beerdroid's ability to detect End of Fermentation. I've made several brews using a standard fermenting vessel at 30 degrees celcius with this yeast and all have reached final gravity in 2-3 days. I've kegged and force carbed these beers to drink a short time later and they are great (these are APA's and NEIPA's). I just finished a NEIPA that I did at 40 degrees and it was done in 36 hours and again, tasted great upon testing after keg and carb.

However, the first time I used this yeast in the Beerdroid, I opted for 30 degrees which is the max limit for the droid. It took between 5-6 days for the droid to indicate EOF. This is around the same speed with which the droid had detected end of fermentation when I was using US05 for an identical brew (Note that I'm not using brewprints). 

I have another very similiar wort cranking in the droid right now which is at around 60 hours. I'm going to take a gravity reading shortly and am expecting it will be at FG. Any thoughts on why the droid would not be detecting EOF as early as expected for this yeast?

[Captain 3 Droids]

Hi H3nDo and welcome to the forum.
1) We’re the ingredients the same for the conventional fermenter as to the Droid?

2) Importantly we’re the ingredients premixed and put in the droid therefore only having to add the yeast?

3) was the ingredients in the conventional fermenter already at 30C when the yeast was added and was this same for the droid or did it have to heat up?

Cheers 

[H3nDo]

Hi Captain,

Thanks for your response mate.

1) Exact same ingredients yes.

2) Placed ingredients in the beerdroid exactly the same as I would have done in my conventional fermenter (and ensuring that I was hitting exactly 10l mark for the droid).

3) After adding the ingredients, I checked the temperature which was about 31 degrees celcius. I figured the droid would drop this to 30 degrees in quick time, so I pitched my kveik yeast and then started my custom program, where I set propagate and fermenting temperatures to 30 degrees. Observed through the beerdroid just 30 minutes later and as expected the Kveik yeast were already getting going.

I have noticed with every brew I have ever done in the Beerdroid (not just with Kveik) that the propagate period is always the same 12 hour duration prior to starting the fermentation phase. After receiving the 'entering Fermentation zone' message on my brewart app, I received another notification 13 hours later stating that fermentation start was detected. It's interesting because by the time that notification came through I would estimate the brew was already 50-60% done. 

I took a gravity reading at 62 hours and my brew has already reached my expected FG. Not heard anything from the droid yet though.

[Captain 3 Droids]

The droid does work to a set propagation period, 12hrs and does a fermentation check every 24 hrs, so if fermentation has not finished at the time of the check and did an hour later, then the 24 hr cycle will have to complete for the next check.  How the droid works with regards to fermentation checks is commercially sensitive however I believe varies temperature measure points are used.

[J P]

On 21/1/2021 at 3:43 PM, H3nDo said:

Hi Captain,

Thanks for your response mate.

1) Exact same ingredients yes.

2) Placed ingredients in the beerdroid exactly the same as I would have done in my conventional fermenter (and ensuring that I was hitting exactly 10l mark for the droid).

3) After adding the ingredients, I checked the temperature which was about 31 degrees celcius. I figured the droid would drop this to 30 degrees in quick time, so I pitched my kveik yeast and then started my custom program, where I set propagate and fermenting temperatures to 30 degrees. Observed through the beerdroid just 30 minutes later and as expected the Kveik yeast were already getting going.

I have noticed with every brew I have ever done in the Beerdroid (not just with Kveik) that the propagate period is always the same 12 hour duration prior to starting the fermentation phase. After receiving the 'entering Fermentation zone' message on my brewart app, I received another notification 13 hours later stating that fermentation start was detected. It's interesting because by the time that notification came through I would estimate the brew was already 50-60% done. 

I took a gravity reading at 62 hours and my brew has already reached my expected FG. Not heard anything from the droid yet though.

You didn’t shout when you pitched the yeast mate.  
 

crucial step that if omitted results in pure carnage I’m told 😂

[J P]

I put a Kveik on today added to droid at 35 and pitched it (including obligatory shout) droid didn’t like the temp reading until it came down to 30C but within an hour the Kveik was bubbling away as if it was day3 of a usual brew!   Viking yeast isn’t sleepy.  
 

my plan was to underpitch for the fruity win, but the more I read about it the more I doubted the science.   Will keep you all posted.   
 

I once did a.GOAT with Kveik and the results were rubbish.   Wouldn’t do that again.  

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

@H3nDo welcome to the forum.

I use Kveik all the time, both the LalBrew Voss and Omega Lutra.

You are absolutely right in that using yeasts such as these do test the limits of the Droid. I've learnt to work within those limits by monitoring temps using the app and looking at the activity thru the view port. You can tell when Kveik is getting done with fermentation as the Droid will heat up the beer rather than cool it down as it does in the first 48 hrs or so.

It's also a major reason why I'm looking at a RAPT pill so I can better monitor fermentation.

BTW, I do all grain rather than the BrewArt ingredients but it would work the same for either.

[J P]

On 21/1/2023 at 9:35 PM, J P said:

I put a Kveik on today added to droid at 35 and pitched it (including obligatory shout) droid didn’t like the temp reading until it came down to 30C but within an hour the Kveik was bubbling away as if it was day3 of a usual brew!   Viking yeast isn’t sleepy.  
 

my plan was to underpitch for the fruity win, but the more I read about it the more I doubted the science.   Will keep you all posted.   
 

I once did a.GOAT with Kveik and the results were rubbish.   Wouldn’t do that again.  

Update.  Day three and the temp graph is flatline for two consecutive days and very occasional bubbles.  
 

I reckon the Kveik goes hard for 24-48 hours and then “burns out”.  Have dry hopped just in case. 100g Sasquatch and 50g motueka.  
 

the anticipation is mounting.  
 

im sharpening my horns and hoping Thor is on my side….

 

stay tuned…

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

8 hours ago, J P said:

Update.  Day three and the temp graph is flatline for two consecutive days and very occasional bubbles.  
 

I reckon the Kveik goes hard for 24-48 hours and then “burns out”.  Have dry hopped just in case. 100g Sasquatch and 50g motueka.  
 

the anticipation is mounting.  
 

im sharpening my horns and hoping Thor is on my side….

 

stay tuned…

Hey @J P good pick up.

Definitely with Kveik, if you're going to Dry Hop, then do it early.

When using Kveik, I've actually taken to adding the hops right at the beginning when adding the yeast or no later than 24 hrs after pitching. As you say, it goes hard for 48 hrs or so then flatlines. If you wait too long, then you run the risk of fermentation ending and then opening the Droid to toss in the hops is risking oxygen getting to the beer.

Watching the temp graph in the app, you clearly see that and you know that fermentation has pretty much run it's course once the Droid starts warming up to 30°C rather than cooling it down to 30°C.

One of the changes I'd love to see for the Droid is to allow operation at higher temps, 35 or even 40 °C would be great and then we can really see just how good Kveik yeasts are.

[J P]

Thanks Wazza for your tips.  
 

no sooner did you say that when the heater came on the droid.  
 

do you leave the hops in for a couple days at high temps then or cool and cold crash? 
 

thanks for the tips mate.  I agree warmer (35-49( probably would allow the Kveik to fully do its thing … have you played with “under pitching” ?

 

 

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

2 minutes ago, J P said:

Thanks Wazza for your tips.  
 

no sooner did you say that when the heater came on the droid.  
 

do you leave the hops in for a couple days at high temps then or cool and cold crash? 
 

thanks for the tips mate.  I agree warmer (35-49( probably would allow the Kveik to fully do its thing … have you played with “under pitching” ?

 

 

@J P Yes, I usually leave them until the Droid tells me fermentation is finished or, 3 days after adding them, which ever is shortest. If it's more than 3 days I will do the temperature change to 15/16°C and then leave for a couple of days and of course cold crash using the preset storage temp at 4°C.

To be honest, with Kveik I've found the best approach to dry hopping is to not use the "Dry Hop" option in the app and do it myself using the methods above.

[J P]

Was just thinking the exact same thing.   Dry hop option will be OFF in the future if this witches brew goes to plan 

[J P]

Was just thinking the exact same thing.   Dry hop option will be OFF in the future if this witches brew goes to plan 

latest update on day 4+ 

have turned down to 16C

Let’s see what happens next thanks Wazza for the guidance 

[J P]

Was just thinking the exact same thing.   Dry hop option will be OFF in the future if this witches brew goes to plan 

latest update on day 4+ 

have turned down to 16C

Let’s see what happens next thanks Wazza for the guidance 

I have some more thoughts after re reading this thread. 
 

@BrewArt TeamI almost wonder whether setting the droid to 30c is problematic in that there is nowhere to go up from there with the temperature controller.  
 

and since it seems that fermentation start and EOF are all dependant of temperature fluctuations, the droid is already maxed out.  
 

this makes me think of trying:

Start the brew at 30C with all ingredients and Kveik and Hops, then “cancel” the fermentation and just let the Kveik takeover.   It’ll likely push the temps into 35+? Which is probably the Kveik ideal zone.  Then just watch for bubbling to cease +1-2 days, then start the droid with a program of propagate 25 (or so) and ferment 20.  Then the droid has more to work with in terms of heat fluctuations to detect EOF etc.  

The droid is fairly insulated and so the brew probably won’t cool down the much on its own while the Kveik is active.   
 

just some amateur thoughts.  
 

@Wazza_wantsbeer @Captain 3 Droids

what do you guys reckon?

I have to say that this brew LOOKS amazing and hazy at this point.  

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

On 26/01/2023 at 12:47 PM, J P said:

Was just thinking the exact same thing.   Dry hop option will be OFF in the future if this witches brew goes to plan 

latest update on day 4+ 

have turned down to 16C

Let’s see what happens next thanks Wazza for the guidance 

I have some more thoughts after re reading this thread. 
 

@BrewArt TeamI almost wonder whether setting the droid to 30c is problematic in that there is nowhere to go up from there with the temperature controller.  
 

and since it seems that fermentation start and EOF are all dependant of temperature fluctuations, the droid is already maxed out.  
 

this makes me think of trying:

Start the brew at 30C with all ingredients and Kveik and Hops, then “cancel” the fermentation and just let the Kveik takeover.   It’ll likely push the temps into 35+? Which is probably the Kveik ideal zone.  Then just watch for bubbling to cease +1-2 days, then start the droid with a program of propagate 25 (or so) and ferment 20.  Then the droid has more to work with in terms of heat fluctuations to detect EOF etc.  

The droid is fairly insulated and so the brew probably won’t cool down the much on its own while the Kveik is active.   
 

just some amateur thoughts.  
 

@Wazza_wantsbeer @Captain 3 Droids

what do you guys reckon?

I have to say that this brew LOOKS amazing and hazy at this point.  

@J P I like the way you think.

I think I will try the same next time I use Kveik. Will pitch at 30°C, get to the point where fermentation has clearly kicked off then cancel the brew. Once fermentation looks to be nearing the end, start a new custom where it starts at 16°C, toss in the hops if I haven't already, let sit for 2 days then drop the temp down as far as it will go for another 2 days as a cold crash.

This is where using something like the RAPT Pill or Tilt would pay off.

Great job @J P can't wait to see how it turns out.

[J P]

Was just thinking the exact same thing.   Dry hop option will be OFF in the future if this witches brew goes to plan 

latest update on day 4+ 

have turned down to 16C

Let’s see what happens next thanks Wazza for the guidance 

now day 9 and have dropped the temp to 5C. There is a pellicle on top but the beer isn’t bad tasting.   It’s pretty hazy and intense.   
 

will cold crash for a couple of days and then bottle in case it doesn’t turn out.  
 

im cautiously hopeful but fear I’ve left it too long.  
 

reckon @Wazza_wantsbeeris spot on with the utility of a tilt or Rapt.  
 

might try a Kveik and just put it in an old school fermenter outside…. 
 

 

[J P]

Update: Kveik is now conditioning and whispering in my ear on a daily basis.  Only a few weeks to go….

Damn you Temptress!!! 🤣

[Dustin Frothman]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:48 AM, J P said:

Update: Kveik is now conditioning and whispering in my ear on a daily basis.  Only a few weeks to go….

Damn you Temptress!!! 🤣

Some more tempting for you @J P

Over the weekend I Cracked the Citra SMaSH brewed with Kveik after 3 months in the keg.

Tastes like Summer. 

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

35 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

Some more tempting for you @J P

Over the weekend I Cracked the Citra SMaSH brewed with Kveik after 3 months in the keg.

Tastes like Summer. 

Looks awesome @Dustin Frothman. What malt did you use for this SMaSH and which version of Kveik?

Great colour and very nice head on that.

[J P]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:48 AM, J P said:

Update: Kveik is now conditioning and whispering in my ear on a daily basis.  Only a few weeks to go….

Damn you Temptress!!! 🤣

Results are in!! Hazy, opaque, fruity (berries and green apple) with Sasquatch and motueka hops.   It’s a win!!!!

[Dustin Frothman]

On 14/02/2023 at 10:11 AM, Wazza_wantsbeer said:

Looks awesome @Dustin Frothman. What malt did you use for this SMaSH and which version of Kveik?

Great colour and very nice head on that.

Gladfield American Ale malt and Lallemand Voss Kveik.

It was all over and done with very quickly!

Just like the keg ...

I'll be making this one again and again. It's so easy and so quick and I have lots of Citra to get through.

[Wazza_wantsbeer]

On 15/02/2023 at 10:25 PM, Dustin Frothman said:

Gladfield American Ale malt and Lallemand Voss Kveik.

It was all over and done with very quickly!

Just like the keg ...

I'll be making this one again and again. It's so easy and so quick and I have lots of Citra to get through.

Ah yes, Gladfield American Ale Malt, been using that quite a bit lately. A good 2-row that isn't as dark as the base Gladfield Ale Malt.

Would certainly partner well with Citra. How much Citra did you use?

Thinking to do more SMaSH beers to get a good handle on how the individual malts taste as well as the individual hops.

Was thinking of a Nectaron SMaSH but was tossing up which Malt to use as my first SMaSH used Golden Promise. Might try the American Ale Malt next time as yours looks the goods!