Any reason canning direct from Droid shouldn't work?

[Will Powell]

I've massively fallen out of love with the BrewFlow system I had and have been bottling pretty much all my beer as a result, but I was wondering is there any reason why canning it in the same way wouldn't work?

Ferment it in the Droid, decant to cans and throw in a couple of sugar drops, then seal the can.

I know people say you need to overflow cans to get rid of any O2, but we don't do that with bottles. In fact the tutorial at the top of this forum shows an air gap left in the bottles. Why wouldn't this be the same with cans?

 

Any ideas?

[Captain 3 Droids]

2 hours ago, Will Powell said:

I've massively fallen out of love with the BrewFlow system I had and have been bottling pretty much all my beer as a result, but I was wondering is there any reason why canning it in the same way wouldn't work?

Ferment it in the Droid, decant to cans and throw in a couple of sugar drops, then seal the can.

I know people say you need to overflow cans to get rid of any O2, but we don't do that with bottles. In fact the tutorial at the top of this forum shows an air gap left in the bottles. Why wouldn't this be the same with cans?

 

Any ideas?

Hi Will, sorry about your disappointment with the BrewFlo however owners here will probably discuss with you.

Can not see any reason why the canning process would work as suggested but I’d be filling up to fairly full as there is a fair bit more surface area for the O2 compared to bottles. Would you be going for the 500ml cans? 
Found this for you (head space only real issue)

https://homebrew.stackexchange.com/questions/24477/is-it-safe-to-carbonate-beer-in-a-can

[Will Powell]

I'd probably be going for 330ml cans.

 

Thanks for the link. It helps!

[Will Powell]

Update.

 

I tried opening one of the cans today as a progress check on a version of an Irish malt ale.

 

The good news is that secondary fermentation in a can TOTALLY works. The cans are solidly pressurized and hold it well. If anything it’s ever so slightly over carbonated for the style of ale I was going for. It’ll be great for a Pilsner type of beer.

It did take a little while to really dial in the calibration of the canning rollers. I took to using fizzy water to test the seal - filling the can most of the way, sealing it in the machine and then shaking it up and leaving the can upside down in a tray for a few hours.

Eventually no liquid came out, then I did the same with the can submerged to test no gas was leaking. 
 

I can recommend this as an additional storage / fermentation solution for a droid setup.

[Dustin Frothman]

10 minutes ago, Will Powell said:

Update.

 

I tried opening one of the cans today as a progress check on a version of an Irish malt ale.

 

The good news is that secondary fermentation in a can TOTALLY works. The cans are solidly pressurized and hold it well. If anything it’s ever so slightly over carbonated for the style of ale I was going for. It’ll be great for a Pilsner type of beer.

It did take a little while to really dial in the calibration of the canning rollers. I took to using fizzy water to test the seal - filling the can most of the way, sealing it in the machine and then shaking it up and leaving the can upside down in a tray for a few hours.

Eventually no liquid came out, then I did the same with the can submerged to test no gas was leaking. 
 

I can recommend this as an additional storage / fermentation solution for a droid setup.

Thanks for the update.

What does each can plus lid cost?

[Will Powell]

2 hours ago, Dustin Frothman said:

Thanks for the update.

What does each can plus lid cost?

Just over 50c each. It was $160 for 300 cans and lids, so it’s not exactly cheap, particularly when you factor in the cost of the machine.

It’s about 3x the price of the keg liners, but I’ve lost about 40% of those historically, along with the associated loss of beer. The quality control was shocking.

The cans are also a lot easier to store.

Right now I’m kegging half and canning half.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Will Powell

[Eltham Brauhaus]

5 hours ago, Will Powell said:

Just over 50c each. It was $160 for 300 cans and lids, so it’s not exactly cheap, particularly when you factor in the cost of the machine.

It’s about 3x the price of the keg liners, but I’ve lost about 40% of those historically, along with the associated loss of beer. The quality control was shocking.

The cans are also a lot easier to store.

Right now I’m kegging half and canning half.

Given the higher cost of the non reusable cans and the upfront capital cost for the canning machine, why do you consider canning is better than bottling?

[Captain 3 Droids]

31 minutes ago, Eltham Brewing House said:

Given the higher cost of the non reusable cans and the upfront capital cost for the canning machine, why do you consider canning is better than bottling?

You certainly have a point however if your not worried about the cost of your brews then the additional $15 to the cost of 10l batches is not of a concern. 

[Eltham Brauhaus]

35 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

You certainly have a point however if your not worried about the cost of your brews then the additional $15 to the cost of 10l batches is not of a concern. 

Agreed but are the real advantages of spending the additional $15 per batch to can let alone the amortization of the capital cost of the canning machine. Just trying to get my head around it all.

[Captain 3 Droids]

2 minutes ago, Eltham Brewing House said:

Agreed but are the real advantages of spending the additional $15 per batch to can let alone the amortization of the capital cost of the canning machine. Just trying to get my head around it all.

Personally it’s not worth the expense both capital and for the cost of the cans. I love the fact that I can produce quality beers at 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 (depending on the recipe) the cost of a commercial equivalent. In that, adding $15 (not taking  into account the capital expense)  tends to spoil that. The other issue is delivery, for example Kegland says to take into account a 5% lost due to damage in transport, min 15 cans down the tube before you start.

[Will Powell]

5 hours ago, Eltham Brewing House said:

Given the higher cost of the non reusable cans and the upfront capital cost for the canning machine, why do you consider canning is better than bottling?

@Eltham Brewing House I never said it was better?

Plastic bottles do degrade over time though, which means you can't really store long term projects in them, and bottles of any sort are a pain in the arse to clean. The time alone for that process is worth the extra to me. Glass bottles are also much harder to store, both empty and full, if that matters to you, but I wouldn't say one method is any 'better' than the other. It just depends on your particular needs and circumstances.

 

@Captain 3 Droids  I only lost 3 cans in my first shipment, so I guess I got lucky there and none were due to shipping damage. The 3 had defective rims.

 

There's also the additional function of my abilty to can anything I need to, which increases the value proposition. Now if I open a 20Oz 12% Imperial I don't have to drink it all in one go. I can fill a can, seal it and put it back in the fridge for another day. I can also can veggies from the garden. For me it's multifunctional. 

I'm also happy that as an experiment it worked. It's rare that you look for something on the internet and can't find a clear answer. Now there is one. Yes - you can do secondary fermentation straight into a can and it works.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Will Powell

[Captain 3 Droids]

Great that you have gone done this path, confirmed secondary fermentation and opened up another alternative for brewers. I know that a U Brew It in Adelaide and a couple in Melbourne have introduced canning as an alternative to bottling or kegging. It is apparently very popular and you just pay for the cans on the day. The canning machine is more commercial and pre-set for success. These cans are filled with carbonated beer.

 

[Dustin Frothman]

10 hours ago, Will Powell said:

@Eltham Brewing House I never said it was better?

Plastic bottles do degrade over time though, which means you can't really store long term projects in them, and bottles of any sort are a pain in the arse to clean. The time alone for that process is worth the extra to me. Glass bottles are also much harder to store, both empty and full, if that matters to you, but I wouldn't say one method is any 'better' than the other. It just depends on your particular needs and circumstances.

 

@Captain 3 Droids  I only lost 3 cans in my first shipment, so I guess I got lucky there and none were due to shipping damage. The 3 had defective rims.

 

There's also the additional function of my abilty to can anything I need to, which increases the value proposition. Now if I open a 20Oz 12% Imperial I don't have to drink it all in one go. I can fill a can, seal it and put it back in the fridge for another day. I can also can veggies from the garden. For me it's multifunctional. 

I'm also happy that as an experiment it worked. It's rare that you look for something on the internet and can't find a clear answer. Now there is one. Yes - you can do secondary fermentation straight into a can and it works.

Cheers Will.

You know, they say that cans are just mini kegs and kegging your own beer is a great way to store, carbonate and serve.  So it sounds like you’ve made a good choice.

[Will Powell]

😃

[Captain 3 Droids]

1 minute ago, Will Powell said:

😃

Bloody hell, that’s blood impressive, love the sound, the can opening, the gas, the pour. Top stuff.

[Dustin Frothman]

1 hour ago, Will Powell said:

😃

Awesome.

I need another beer.