Ikeeger

[Captain 3 Droids]

17 minutes ago, Eltham Brewing House said:

I am toying with the idea of turning my garage fridge into a Keggerator and kegging 5lt of the droids 10l capacity and bottling the remaining 5l.

From what I have read, forced carbonation enables consumption in 48 hours instead of minimum 2 weeks + for natural carbonation in bottles using carbonation drops.

My question is how does the quality of the 48 hour forced carbonation in kegs compare with natural carbonation in bottles for 2 + weeks. It seems to me that the 48 hour forced carbonation kegging system misses out on the flavour benefits obtained from an extended secondary fermentation stage. 

 

If you fill a keg from the droid, chill it straight away then force carbonate over 48hrs then the maturing process will be lost in comparison with keg/bottle sugar carbonation over the two weeks. The Co2 force carbonation keg will be fairly green as they say.

However generally your ss keg after being filled should sit for some time (to mature) just as you would with your bottles before chilling , carbonating etc.

 

[Eltham Brauhaus]

19 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

If you fill a keg from the droid, chill it straight away then force carbonate over 48hrs then the maturing process will be lost in comparison with keg/bottle sugar carbonation over the two weeks. The Co2 force carbonation keg will be fairly green as they say.

However generally your ss keg after being filled should sit for some time (to mature) just as you would with your bottles before chilling , carbonating etc.

 

So there is no real time savings by going the Keggerator / forced carbonation route If you want a premium result. Just less hassle with bottling method and the convenience of pouring a beer from a tap.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Eltham Brewing House

[Captain 3 Droids]

6 hours ago, Eltham Brewing House said:

So there is no real time savings by going the Keggerator / forced carbonation route If you want a premium result. Just less hassle with bottling method and the convenience of pouring a beer from a tap.

 

 

I think there are a few gains:-

 1) you can get the amount of carbonation required consistently correct

2) correct and consistent dispensing pressure

3) easy correction and very limited loss of beer if over-carbonated

4) you can be dispensing very early (not waiting 2 weeks +) if you wish

5) IMO the end result is a crisper, fresher beer than sugar types of primer

However the cost in setting up properly is not cheap if you already have the Beerflo set up. ( which IMO is a very good system if you get it right)

[Dustin Frothman]

I still think good beer takes time and once you’re ahead of the consumption curve the matured kegs just keep coming good week after week and you get to enjoy the beer at its  best. Unless you’re brewing all grain I don’t think you can skimp on the maturing time.

I’ve said a few times on here that I’d like a 3 tap kegerator just so that I could share a few different beers in a session without the fuss of pre-chilling kegs and swapping in and out of the Brewflo. 

I’ve never equated home brewing with saving money but many do so here’s something to consider:

Like all kegging systems the Brewflo is imperfect and requires some learning and trial and error, but once you get it right it’s a great system. So if you were to purchase three (they’re going very cheaply second hand) you’d still be way ahead financially than if you bought a Kegland Series X, three tap font, 4 x 10L kegs, gas etc. 

I haven’t measured them (perhaps I should) but depending on your setup at home it’s possible that 3 Brewflos take up less space and use less electricity than a kegerator too.

If you decided at certain times of the year you didn’t need 3 beers on the go you could put one or more away and out of sight and save on the running costs too.

[J P]

On 18/04/2021 at 2:15 PM, Dustin Frothman said:

I still think good beer takes time and once you’re ahead of the consumption curve the matured kegs just keep coming good week after week and you get to enjoy the beer at its  best. Unless you’re brewing all grain I don’t think you can skimp on the maturing time.

I’ve said a few times on here that I’d like a 3 tap kegerator just so that I could share a few different beers in a session without the fuss of pre-chilling kegs and swapping in and out of the Brewflo. 

I’ve never equated home brewing with saving money but many do so here’s something to consider:

Like all kegging systems the Brewflo is imperfect and requires some learning and trial and error, but once you get it right it’s a great system. So if you were to purchase three (they’re going very cheaply second hand) you’d still be way ahead financially than if you bought a Kegland Series X, three tap font, 4 x 10L kegs, gas etc. 

I haven’t measured them (perhaps I should) but depending on your setup at home it’s possible that 3 Brewflos take up less space and use less electricity than a kegerator too.

If you decided at certain times of the year you didn’t need 3 beers on the go you could put one or more away and out of sight and save on the running costs too.

I have been curious about running costs for the system and do agree with your assertion that quality and enjoyability trumps economy in home brewing.  
 

I have sat down with an energy calculator and was surprised (good and bad) by what I found.  bottom line: Droids are cheap to run, While Brewflo’s are not so much.  
 

Droids operate at 43W and if you assume $0.29 per kWh, it seems to work out to about $3-5 per droid per brew.  Way less than I though.  
 

Brewflos run at 150W, end rough maths cost about $1 per day ($30 per month per flow) IF we assume they’re running all day long (likely not) so this is a worse case scenario.  
 

https://reductionrevolution.com.au/pages/electricity-cost-calculator

there you have it folks, A little BrewArt Trivia and OCD therapy …

 

[J P]

On 3/7/21 at 8:14 AM, J P said:

I have been curious about running costs for the system and do agree with your assertion that quality and enjoyability trumps economy in home brewing.  
 

I have sat down with an energy calculator and was surprised (good and bad) by what I found.  bottom line: Droids are cheap to run, While Brewflo’s are not so much.  
 

Droids operate at 43W and if you assume $0.29 per kWh, it seems to work out to about $3-5 per droid per brew.  Way less than I though.  
 

Brewflos run at 150W, end rough maths cost about $1 per day ($30 per month per flow) IF we assume they’re running all day long (likely not) so this is a worse case scenario.  
 

https://reductionrevolution.com.au/pages/electricity-cost-calculator

there you have it folks, A little BrewArt Trivia and OCD therapy …

 

I stand corrected.   
I ran a current meter and found out the following:

two Brewflos cost about 10cents per day to run. 
 

two droids about the same.  (So 35 cents or so per droid batch)

that’s crazy cheap. Very efficient units.  

[Captain 3 Droids]

4 hours ago, J P said:

I stand corrected.   
I ran a current meter and found out the following:

two Brewflos cost about 10cents per day to run. 
 

two droids about the same.  (So 35 cents or so per droid batch)

that’s crazy cheap. Very efficient units.  

So my 3 Droids 15c/day? X 90day bill cycle = $13.50. Now that is good

[Robert Pretty]

Just so I'm clear you Kegerator users. Still tossing up whether to go this way. You fill your SS keg from the droid then leave it prior to consumption. Two questions.

1. After filling SS keg from droid,  you carbonate straight away? What pressure, how long?

2. Do you leave not carbonated. How long for ? Then only carbonate prior to chilling and drinking?

I reckon if I go this way , I will brew less. As I want have to wait as long for carbonation to drink. (8 weeks Ales) Two taps system two 10litre kegs running. Take me a while to drink those. Two Kegs waiting. That means I can get away with 4 SS Kegs. Thoughts

Cheers

 

 

 

[Dustin Frothman]

9 minutes ago, Robert Pretty said:

Just so I'm clear you Kegerator users. Still tossing up whether to go this way. You fill your SS keg from the droid then leave it prior to consumption. Two questions.

1. After filling SS keg from droid,  you carbonate straight away? What pressure, how long?

2. Do you leave not carbonated. How long for ? Then only carbonate prior to chilling and drinking?

I reckon if I go this way , I will brew less. As I want have to wait as long for carbonation to drink. (8 weeks Ales) Two taps system two 10litre kegs running. Take me a while to drink those. Two Kegs waiting. That means I can get away with 4 SS Kegs. Thoughts

Cheers

 

 

 

To force carbonate your brew with CO2 the beer needs to be cold. You can either do it immediately, or leave the beer to mature and carbonate over the course of a week before you're ready to serve, or you can carbonate quickly using higher pressure and agitating the beer.

I'll let @Captain 3 Droids expand on the techniques for either method.

As for your brewing schedule - the beer still takes the same amount of time to mature. So if you're drinking your IPAs after 6 weeks then 4 x 10L kegs may not be enough storage to keep you stocked with beer that is ready to consume. I guess it depends on how often and how much beer you're drinking.

For example, I have 10 x 10L kegs. They are all full at the moment. Three are connected to my kegerator and are in the process of being consumed. I have one brew in storage in a Droid (it just completed yesterday) and the other Droid is idle. I won't start another brew until there is an empty keg to at least keg the brew that's stored in the Droid.

I don't plan on purchasing any more kegs at the moment. I think 100L of beer storage and 30L on tap at any time is more than enough unless we start having big parties ... which is rather unlikely!

[Captain 3 Droids]

20 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

To force carbonate your brew with CO2 the beer needs to be cold. You can either do it immediately, or leave the beer to mature and carbonate over the course of a week before you're ready to serve, or you can carbonate quickly using higher pressure and agitating the beer.

I'll let @Captain 3 Droids expand on the techniques for either method

Maturing the kegs as you would a bottle gives the best results, so you fill the keg, secured the lid and then purge the majority of oxygen out of the keg head space. I do this at 30psi and release the pressure release valve 5 to six times. Then store keg until required.

When required you can either carbonate the keg by the “set and forget” method.  That is, put it into the fridge/kegerator and connect the gas line set at dispensing pressure. As the keg chills it will absorb Co2. You cannot over carbonate this way and for the  9.5/10l kegs will take around 4 days.

Now at anytime you can “force carbonate” the keg by chilling to 2 to 4 degrees. You need an outside Co2 line and set the gas pressure at 30psi. For a 9.5/10l keg you connect the gas line and then put the keg on its side with the gas in the bottom position. Now roll the keg back and forth (rock) fairly rapidly for 1 min (use a stop watch). You will hear Co2 bubbling. After the minute place the keg upright and turn the gas bottle off, remove the disconnect. I have done this for years and find the keg to be about 95% carbonated to my 10/12psi dispensing pressure. Place keg back in the fridge but don’t  connect the gas line for about an hour as you have shaken the keg and beer could go up the gas line. The keg is best left until the next day for that extra 5%.

(this method is known in the forum trade as the Ross method, with my variation on it).

 

[Robert Pretty]

Cheers @Dustin Frothman and @Captain 3 Droids . Do you still use the carbonation sugar if storing your kegs? Or you don't need to.

Thanks 

[Captain 3 Droids]

Just now, Robert Pretty said:

Cheers @Dustin Frothman and @Captain 3 Droids . Do you still use the carbonation sugar if storing your kegs? Or you don't need to.

Thanks 

Don’t need to if using Co2 in your fridge/kegerator set up. 

[Dustin Frothman]

16 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Don’t need to if using Co2 in your fridge/kegerator set up. 

What @Captain 3 Droids said.

However if you've got a stash then you can use them up in your stainless steel kegs should you wish.

I've been doing this with very good results so far.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Dustin Frothman

[J P]

@Robert, you either spend CO2 or buy sugar to carbonate.   not smart enough and roo lazy to calculate but likely gas is cheaper than sugar…

no way to get around the real truth:

i’ve learned (as taught by the masters of this forum whose names are obvious) you really should be aging your beers 8 weeks to get the best results (a recent lawnmower lager left for 8 weeks plus starts to compete with a complex ale and even mellow honey aspects start to develop)

my personal opinion as stated by Rob is that you calculate your steady state and plunk down for enough vessels that you’re never drinking your beers early (before 8 weeks) and you’ll be a consistency pro and anyone who samples will frequent your home for better or worse 😶‍🌫️

i’ve found that well matured home craft rivals any microbrew crafties and is so super satisfying to have on tap at home.  this is likely what the coopers team had in mind with developing this product line and it delivers…again and again…

[Dustin Frothman]

4 hours ago, J P said:

@Robert, you either spend CO2 or buy sugar to carbonate.   not smart enough and roo lazy to calculate but likely gas is cheaper than sugar…

Gas is cheaper, but the break even point is likely far longer once you factor in the cost of the vessels, the connections, the regulator, the fridge, the cleaning products etc.

I think the advantage however lies in the speed should you wish to use the “Ross Method” as described by The Captain, or more importantly and a nuance missed by some; that with CO2 you have the ability to choose the level of carbonation for each beer according to either the accepted style standard or your preference. 

It is really interesting how the level of carbonation in a beer influences the perception of mouth feel and taste.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Dustin Frothman