Secondary Fermentation/Kegging help!

[T D]

Hi Guys, 

My partner has just bought me a Beerdroid for my birthday and I already have my first brew (American Pale Ale) brewing currently. 

I decided to treat myself with tax time and buy myself the 5L x 2 keg packs that iKegger sell. 

I am just trying to get my head around the process from here, so sorry for all the dumb questions. 

I am hoping to bottle half of my brew and put the other 5L in the keg is this possible and do I need to use the prime tablets that came with the brewprint?

In regards to "second fermentation" which I have heard/read a lot about, how does this work and how do i complete it in the keg? From my understanding I can fill the keg and have it regulated to 10-12 psi and let it sit in the fridge until its matured a few weeks to drink? 

Appreciate all your knowledge from a newbie.

[xpsTech]

Hello TD, welcome to the forum. There are no dumb questions here just lots of nice folk willing to help.

Yes you can bottle 1/2 and keg 1/2.

In each bottle you will need to put 1 or 2 carb (sugar) drops. The yeast in the brew re-activates and works on the sugar to produce a touch more alcohol and CO2, this is what carbonates your beer and is the process called secondary fermentation. This takes two weeks if the bottles are at around 18C, longer if cooler. Having said that, leaving the brew for 6 weeks or more depending on the beer will let the brew mature and produce a better result.

The kegging the process you described is forced carbonation not secondary fermentation. You can do this but again I would leave it for 6 weeks  at room temperature before drinking. You can also secondary ferment in the keg, instead of force carbonation you can add the primer from the brew print.

I hope this has helped.

Looking forward to hearing about your results.

Cheers.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by xpsTech

[Captain 3 Droids]

38 minutes ago, T D said:

Hi Guys, 

My partner has just bought me a Beerdroid for my birthday and I already have my first brew (American Pale Ale) brewing currently. 

I decided to treat myself with tax time and buy myself the 5L x 2 keg packs that iKegger sell. 

I am just trying to get my head around the process from here, so sorry for all the dumb questions. 

I am hoping to bottle half of my brew and put the other 5L in the keg is this possible and do I need to use the prime tablets that came with the brewprint?

In regards to "second fermentation" which I have heard/read a lot about, how does this work and how do i complete it in the keg? From my understanding I can fill the keg and have it regulated to 10-12 psi and let it sit in the fridge until its matured a few weeks to drink? 

Appreciate all your knowledge from a newbie.

Welcome to the forum TD. xpsTech is correct. Just to clarify, 1 carb drop for 375ml and 2 for 750ml or the PET bottles. With the kegs, 6 weeks maturing time can be done out of the fridge and then put into the fridge to connect to the Co2. 5 days should see you carbonated, pour a glass to ascertain if longer is needed.

[T D]

29 minutes ago, xpsTech said:

The kegging the process you described is forced carbonation not secondary fermentation. You can do this but again I would leave it for 6 weeks  at room temperature before drinking. You can also secondary ferment in the keg, instead of force carbonation you can add the primer from the brew print.

 

Hi xpsTech, thanks for your reply really appreciate it.

I think this is where I was getting stuck, I have read so many things about kegging and wasn't sure where to go with it. 

I was assuming I could just go straight from the droid into the keg and fridge for 2-3 weeks before dropping to 3-4 psi and serving without using primer tablets included. 

Will I achieve a better result if I add primer and leave in the keg as opposed to forced carbonation into the keg and leaving 2-3 weeks before serving?

 

 

[T D]

10 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

With the kegs, 6 weeks maturing time can be done out of the fridge and then put into the fridge to connect to the Co2. 5 days should see you carbonated, pour a glass to ascertain if longer is needed.

Thanks Captain 3 Droids. 

I think the kegging is the thing i'm more lost on, the bottles i've watched a few videos and doesn't seem to difficult. 

 

So I am assuming from the stage of when i'm ready to keg from the droid to the ikegger, I connect the two units and prime the keg then leave the beer uncarbonated from C02?

Once this has matured I can chuck it in the fridge, connect to C02 and then after a few days she should be good to drink? 

Sorry if i'm not understanding correctly 

[Captain 3 Droids]

1 minute ago, T D said:

Thanks Captain 3 Droids. 

I think the kegging is the thing i'm more lost on, the bottles i've watched a few videos and doesn't seem to difficult. 

 

So I am assuming from the stage of when i'm ready to keg from the droid to the ikegger, I connect the two units and prime the keg then leave the beer uncarbonated from C02?

Once this has matured I can chuck it in the fridge, connect to C02 and then after a few days she should be good to drink? 

Sorry if i'm not understanding correctly 

If you going to carbonate using Co2 then don’t  prime with sugar etc. Fill the keg with 5l, attached the spear (cap with disconnects) and purge with co2. I do this at 30psi however a lower pressure is ok. To purge you attach the Co2 and release pressure 4 to 5 times quickly by activating the pressure release valve for those 4 to 5 times. ( leave pressurised). This removes most of the oxygen in the head space and provides protection for your brew.

Then as you say once matured in the ridge and connect to Co2 at your desired dispensing pressure.

[Dustin Frothman]

Hi @T D and welcome. Looking forward to hearing about your brewing journey.

@Captain 3 Droids  Am I correct to assume here that the confusion is between "carbonating a keg with CO2" and "dispensing a keg with CO2"?

i.e. you can carbonate your beer in the keg naturally using priming sugar and waiting 2 weeks at approximately 18 degrees C and then dispense using CO2 via your draught system.

And you can both carbonate your beer with CO2 in the fridge for a specified time depending on pressure, and then dispense using CO2 via your draught system.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Dustin Frothman

[T D]

27 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

@Captain 3 Droids  Am I correct to assume here that the confusion is between "carbonating a keg with CO2" and "dispensing a keg with CO2"?

 

Hi @Dustin Frothman thanks for the reply. 

Yep, my main issue was how I manage to first dispense the beer from the droid to the keg and whether I need to use the primer if I am planning to secondary in the keg and once ready then use the CO2 for dispensing 

Just for clarification this is what I have bought (https://www.ikegger.com/products/10l-ikegger-package-with-filling-kit-to-match-brewart-beerdroid)

[Dustin Frothman]

4 hours ago, T D said:

Hi @Dustin Frothman thanks for the reply. 

Yep, my main issue was how I manage to first dispense the beer from the droid to the keg and whether I need to use the primer if I am planning to secondary in the keg and once ready then use the CO2 for dispensing 

Just for clarification this is what I have bought (https://www.ikegger.com/products/10l-ikegger-package-with-filling-kit-to-match-brewart-beerdroid)

No worries.

Yes that kit looks like a pretty cool product and I know it's popular with BeerDroid users.

I think there's a video on the iKegger site that shows how to fill your keg from the BeerDroid.

@Captain 3 Droids  often describes beer that is force carbonated as having a "crisper" taste. Perhaps you could try both methods on the same brew and see which you prefer.

[Captain 3 Droids]

12 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

@Captain 3 Droids  often describes beer that is force carbonated as having a "crisper" taste. Perhaps you could try both methods on the same brew and see which you prefer.

Now I’ve just finished a bit of an experimental evaluation with English Pub Draught. A keg of this 7 weeks + carbonated with bottle Co2 and a bottle of the same batch carbonated with 2 Coopers priming tables. The top photo is the keg, the botton from the bottle.

Both appear the same, both had good carbonation, both had a good healthy head and both left nice lacing. Now the keg (Co2 gas) was definitely fresher in taste and had a crisp finish. The bottle (tablets) was a bit flatter in taste, not due to less carbonation but “stale” to some degree in the taste would be my thought.

Dont get me wrong, the bottle version was quite acceptable and rated highly. It was a good drop. I brewed bottle beer for years and only changed over to stainless kegs, Co2 bottles, regulators ect etc etc as the whole process is easier however it can be at an initial high cost.

[Rob Courtney]

So @Captain 3 Droids  How many kegs (size) do you have and how do you go cooling them, do you have a spare fridge or do you go and through anything you figure you won't eat out so you have space?

[Captain 3 Droids]

8 minutes ago, Rob Courtney said:

So @Captain 3 Droids  How many kegs (size) do you have and how do you go cooling them, do you have a spare fridge or do you go and through anything you figure you won't eat out so you have space?

I have 7 x 9.5l (which easily take 10l), 2 x 10l, 6 x 12l (good for 10l) and 2 x5l. I run 2 fridges, a mini fridge where I chill down 2 kegs ready for the main fridge which holds 4 kegs. Each keg in the main fridge is on gas and any two are connected to the two flow control beer taps on the door. It takes 10 seconds to change a beer line to another keg so generally 4 choices.

The mini fridge also contains hops and yeast, cold water for summer droid wort and can also put a 5l keg on the back shelf.

[J P]

170 + L in kegs.   
we are coming to find you!!! 
🤣🤣🤣

ive got a new goal to Achieve!

I run a standard fridge converted to 4 tap system that can hold 3 10L and 3-4 5L SSK’s and some yeast and hops, snags, and a few cans of beers for Research and development purposes.  
 

I run two separate BrewFlos, with 12 PET kegs.  6 beers on tap is probably a bit over the top, BUT the two systems mitigate the anger and fury when a batch gets infected or a keg leaks.   🤣

just kegged and bottled the blue moon clone which tasted spot on.  
 

ditto with the Elsies steam ale clone (Little creatures) also tastes amazingly close to the real thing right off the Droid. 
 

that was nearly enough to coax me out of the fetal position when I realised HALF of my Lawnmower batch is infected due to a bag leak.  Also two other IPA kegs leaked   

had I only a single droid and not so many backups, this would be devastating and cripple the supply chain for weeks, likely leading to uproar and riots of the local thirsty blokes who’ve grown accustomed to (spoiled) drinking these Brewart masterpieces 🙂

 

[Rob Courtney]

17 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

I have 7 x 9.5l (which easily take 10l), 2 x 10l, 6 x 12l (good for 10l) and 2 x5l. I run 2 fridges, a mini fridge where I chill down 2 kegs ready for the main fridge which holds 4 kegs. Each keg in the main fridge is on gas and any two are connected to the two flow control beer taps on the door. It takes 10 seconds to change a beer line to another keg so generally 4 choices.

The mini fridge also contains hops and yeast, cold water for summer droid wort and can also put a 5l keg on the back shelf.

I mean it is eventually the way I will go (kegs and gas) and was looking at the 9.5l kegs, with the way I drink, that'd make about 8 kegs to keep on top. So you then have a similar type of set up fridge wise as JP showed where you can hook kegs up to separte taps?

[Captain 3 Droids]

14 minutes ago, Rob Courtney said:

I mean it is eventually the way I will go (kegs and gas) and was looking at the 9.5l kegs, with the way I drink, that'd make about 8 kegs to keep on top. So you then have a similar type of set up fridge wise as JP showed where you can hook kegs up to separte taps?

[J P]

7 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Mint setup.  
wish I’d have gotten the flow control on the taps.    Mine are without and I tend to get frothy taps 

[J P]

[J P]

What pressure you dispensing your kegs at Cap?

[Captain 3 Droids]

6 hours ago, J P said:

What pressure you dispensing your kegs at Cap?

I have short, 1 metre beer lines 4mm id 8mm od therefore not a lot of resistance other than the id. It’s hard to be state the dispensing pressure due to restrictions from the non return valves. I have 1 at the regulator outlet, 1 where the line goes into a two way manifold and 1 on each of the kegs via non return valve gas disconnects. The regulator is set at 14psi but I would say about 10psi into each keg. (the pressure of 14psi was obtained by initial trial and error but didn’t take long).

The flow control taps ( I used intertaps) is just a must as the first pour of the day can be restricted to achieve the perfect outcome, the tap is at full pour usually after 2 pints.

[Dustin Frothman]

@J P and @Captain 3 Droids  this is great information and those photos are invaluable. Thank you!

I've said many times on here I plan to go down the 3 tap kegerator route at some stage. We're hoping to do a Butler's Pantry style renovation to our kitchen and have a few appliances in there - the most important of course being an integrated kegerator so that beer can be poured on draught from the counter top.

The renovation is many years away so I'll probably get the kegerator set up in near future.

I don't like to talk about other brands on here too much but as Brewart doesn't offer us a multi tap system at present I figure it's reasonable to do so.

@J P What do you think of those Triple J's Homebrew 10L kegs? Is it necessary to have a spear for each keg or can you use the growler style screw in cap whilst you're naturally carbonating and/or maturing the beer? Am I correct to assume that if you're going to force carbonate then you need to keep the spear connected once completed? Also thanks for the comment about the flow control taps. I had wondered about that.

I'll probably buy an off the shelf kegerator and like the look of the Kegland Series X units but note that they don't seem to make a 10L keg.

@Captain 3 Droids other than headroom in the keg is there any disadvantage to using a larger keg and holding less than full capacity? I can see you have a mixture of keg types. In your experience what are some of the differences between the Corny and other styles (sorry I don't know all the correct terminology).

[Captain 3 Droids]

10 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

@Captain 3 Droids other than headroom in the keg is there any disadvantage to using a larger keg and holding less than full capacity? I can see you have a mixture of keg types. In your experience what are some of the differences between the Corny and other styles (sorry I don't know all the correct terminology

I do prefer the Cornelius style of kegs however if getting the triple J style or Ikegger ones (check them out) I would pay the extra for the spears. The other styles (Cornelius) however better suit my set up.10l in 12l kegs is fine (you can’t get them at present anywhere in Australia.) So the 9.5l ones are fine. 10l in the 19l Cornelius wastes a lot of gas.

When going down the keg route if you can don’t cheapen your system, flow though taps, duo tube connections, non return disconnects on the gas line etc. When your ready to go down this path if you want to give me a list of what you intend to buy I’d be happy to comment/recommend.

 

[Dustin Frothman]

2 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

I do prefer the Cornelius style of kegs however if getting the triple J style or Ikegger ones (check them out) I would pay the extra for the spears. The other styles (Cornelius) however better suit my set up.10l in 12l kegs is fine (you can’t get them at present anywhere in Australia.) So the 9.5l ones are fine. 10l in the 19l Cornelius wastes a lot of gas.

When going down the keg route if you can don’t cheapen your system, flow though taps, duo tube connections, non return disconnects on the gas line etc. When your ready to go down this path if you want to give me a list of what you intend to buy I’d be happy to comment/recommend.

 

Great advice, thank you.

How do the Cornelius style kegs change the filling or dispensing process?

As we intend to eventually build the kegerator into the cabinetry then yes it'll definitely be a "do it once, do it right" brief.

[Captain 3 Droids]

39 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

How do the Cornelius style kegs change the filling or dispensing process?

Exactly the same, same gas and beer posts, same beer and gas disconnects, in other words the kegs are interchangeable- 

Dont for get to check out https://www.ikegger.com/

(Also with the kegerator go the 2.6kg gas bottle, not the soda stream.)

Edited August 11, 2021 by Captain 3 Droids

[Dustin Frothman]

6 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Exactly the same, same gas and beer posts, same beer and gas disconnects, in other words the kegs are interchangeable- 

Dont for get to check out https://www.ikegger.com/

(Also with the kegerator go the 2.6kg gas bottle, not the soda stream.)

OK, I guess I should've said "why do you prefer the Cornelius style kegs?" instead.

I know their history with serving post mix soft drink and can see how they differ to the standard mini keg with the gas and beer posts on the body of the keg and the big clasped opening.

Are they easier to clean and/or fill?

I can also see that some variations on the design would stack whilst others can't.

Lot's of newbie questions - just interested. 🍻

[Captain 3 Droids]

2 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

OK, I guess I should've said "why do you prefer the Cornelius style kegs?" instead.

I know their history with serving post mix soft drink and can see how they differ to the standard mini keg with the gas and beer posts on the body of the keg and the big clasped opening.

Are they easier to clean and/or fill?

I can also see that some variations on the design would stack whilst others can't.

Lot's of newbie questions - just interested. 🍻

Question away, that’s what we are all here for.

I have the Cornelius style as the other types were not around (or didn’t know they existed) when I went into kegging. Kegland did exist nor ikegger.

I do prefer the Cornelius style as they are easier to clean, part replacements (if needed) are cheap and they do have a long time reputation. If looking at the 9.5l make sure you check on how many you can put on the floor of the kegerator as the diameter is larger than the 10l TripleJ/ikegger ones or the 19l Cornelius. Stacking whilst storing has its advantages if limit to room.