New BrewFlo - Upgrade….?

[Dustin Frothman]

I agree with the above sentiments. BrewArt's customer service is the best I've ever experienced and they are a genuine family company despite their size. These upgrades have been a long time in the making and by using standard fittings they've now made their kegs even more versatile. I'd like to think that some of the troubleshooting and feedback I gave on my BrewFlo journey helped spawn the new design.

I'd still like to see the liner thread to keg cap fitting as this was also a point of failure and I'm not entirely convinced that the new design will be a complete fix if this hasn't been addressed somehow.

If someone has bought the older BrewFlo within a couple of weeks of this release as @Pursyamentioned then I'd imagine if they contact BrewArt they will work something out for them. 

Overall I'm not fussed about any of this and am excited to see a new design. I do wonder what I should do with my existing BrewArt kegging gear though. I had hoped to keep it and perhaps upgrade somehow, but if this is not possible then it's not really viable to use anymore and its value on the second-hand market is now likely zero. It is also taking up valuable space at home.

Oh well.

[Captain 3 Droids]

3 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

I'd still like to see the liner thread to keg cap fitting as this was also a point of failure and I'm not entirely convinced that the new design will be a complete fix if this hasn't been addressed somehow.

The keg thread has been altered for easy assembly and the keg cap has lugs the fit into notches on top of the keg thus securing the liner in position and will not twist whilst doing up the collar.

[Dustin Frothman]

6 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

The keg thread has been altered for easy assembly and the keg cap has lugs the fit into notches on top of the keg thus securing the liner in position and will not twist whilst doing up the collar.

Gotcha!

I didn't realise there were new 101 videos yet. They should to put a "new" or "updated" icon on the videos to indicate a change.

Those caps look much better. Many more o-rings to stop those air leaks that were happening at almost every connection. I guess the trade off is more little bits to clean and potentially lose, but the video is clear and easy to follow. Is that Liam I see there? 😁

I can see those new keg liner connectors are a bazillion times better than either of the previous two designs.

Nice work team!

[Captain 3 Droids]

2 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

Is that Liam I see there?

Yes a video star.

[Rob Courtney]

 

[Pursya]

3 hours ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Not going to agree here. Many many things get upgraded, improved, removal of issues eg phones, computers, tv’s etc. It is part of the commercial world. As I see it BrewArt goes overboard with there customer service and technical division.

Ah, but the fact the initial system never worked to the advertised promise of “the perfect pour” means it has always been unfit for purpose and the advertising alone breaches Australian standards.

There is little doubt that the service has been excellent, but the perfect pour has never been achieved on a consistent basis for thousands of users.

You use TV’s, phones and other electronic devices as a basis for defence in that they do continually upgrade. And this is true. But every device, before the upgrade, is fit for purpose and consistently delivers on its advertised promise.

Thats a huge difference.

[Captain 3 Droids]

8 hours ago, Pursya said:

but the perfect pour has never been achieved on a consistent basis for thousands of users.

Thousands of users? There are also a number of users that believe the system/unit is great. The failure of a perfect pour is not necessarily always the unit. The cleanliness of the glass, the angle, the filling of the keg to the amount of primer used (the system works on 5l, if less then the brew can be over carbonated, if more can be flat.), fermentation fully completed, if not over carbonation, how long at maturity/carbonation before using?

I’m sorry but people have/do get the perfect pour.

[Thagomizer]

44 minutes ago, Thagomizer said:

At last, the problems with the old BrewFlo are acknowledged and presented with improved technology.  Rather than punish this excellent company for the improvement let us find a way to accommodate the re-patriasation of some disgruntled customers to the improved technology.

In my case, my BrewFlo is re-boxed and residing in my attic.  I would be amenable to a serious discount on a modern well-working replacement.  However, I have adopted an alternate system: 5-liter Mini Kegs dispensed by the Party-Star Deluxe system.  I am not desperate for a kegging solution.

As I have said before, the BrewFlo is an ingenious system for dispensing beer. However, its complexity calls for precision in components and significant care in user operation.  I.e., it is a complex system subject to several failure points.

I look forward to BrewArt's reconciliation of the BrewFlo issue; and will always be loyal to the BeerDroid and its excellent BrewPrints.

 

[Captain 3 Droids]

I’m sorry I couldn’t say anything before as I was under strict legal requirements concerning confidentiality.

I have been privileged to have been selected as a “Beta Tester” for the upgraded kegs and BrewFlo unit. This required the review/comment on video’s, instruction sheets, surveys, assemblies and use of the equipment.

I tested the kegging set up and BrewFlo unit with a 2 week carbonated Lighthouse PA. The keg assembly is so easy, the thread has been altered for easier attachment of the securing plate. The plate has tabs that sit in slots on the keg top to stop any twisting of the bag when you do up the collar.

Chilled  the kegs to 3C and set the unit at 3C (acceptance within minutes, up to 10hrs if kegs put in at ambient temperatures (18C?).

The placement of the beer line and airline in the unit could be done nearly blind folded. The beer line has a FloCon connector which allows for flow rate control and works well. The airline pressure can be adjusted in increments of 1 with up to plus 5 or negative 5. Unit comes with a “QuckStart step by step Guide which is so easy to follow. The ball lock connects are so secure and match what is generally used by brewers.

Control of the pour is now available and I did not find it necessary to discard any initial frothing which apparently was advised in a previous video.

One great thing to brag about is I was informed that my first pour was the first done by non Coopers/BrewArt employee. 

It is a great upgrade and I’ll be incorporating it in with my current brewing.

photos show various pours over about 10days, the second one being the first pour.

[Dustin Frothman]

9 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

I’m sorry I couldn’t say anything before as I was under strict legal requirements concerning confidentiality.

I have been privileged to have been selected as a “Beta Tester” for the upgraded kegs and BrewFlo unit. This required the review/comment on video’s, instruction sheets, surveys, assemblies and use of the equipment.

I tested the kegging set up and BrewFlo unit with a 2 week carbonated Lighthouse PA. The keg assembly is so easy, the thread has been altered for easier attachment of the securing plate. The plate has tabs that sit in slots on the keg top to stop any twisting of the bag when you do up the collar.

Chilled  the kegs to 3C and set the unit at 3C (acceptance within minutes, up to 10hrs if kegs put in at ambient temperatures (18C?).

The placement of the beer line and airline in the unit could be done nearly blind folded. The beer line has a FloCon connector which allows for flow rate control and works well. The airline pressure can be adjusted in increments of 1 with up to plus 5 or negative 5. Unit comes with a “QuckStart step by step Guide which is so easy to follow. The ball lock connects are so secure and match what is generally used by brewers.

Control of the pour is now available and I did not find it necessary to discard any initial frothing which apparently was advised in a previous video.

One great thing to brag about is I was informed that my first pour was the first done by non Coopers/BrewArt employee. 

It is a great upgrade and I’ll be incorporating it in with my current brewing.

photos show various pours over about 10days, the second one being the first pour.

Nice one.

Do you get to keep the unit?

Edited August 1, 2022 by Dustin Frothman

[Dustin Frothman]

21 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

I’m sorry I couldn’t say anything before as I was under strict legal requirements concerning confidentiality.

I have been privileged to have been selected as a “Beta Tester” for the upgraded kegs and BrewFlo unit. This required the review/comment on video’s, instruction sheets, surveys, assemblies and use of the equipment.

I tested the kegging set up and BrewFlo unit with a 2 week carbonated Lighthouse PA. The keg assembly is so easy, the thread has been altered for easier attachment of the securing plate. The plate has tabs that sit in slots on the keg top to stop any twisting of the bag when you do up the collar.

Chilled  the kegs to 3C and set the unit at 3C (acceptance within minutes, up to 10hrs if kegs put in at ambient temperatures (18C?).

The placement of the beer line and airline in the unit could be done nearly blind folded. The beer line has a FloCon connector which allows for flow rate control and works well. The airline pressure can be adjusted in increments of 1 with up to plus 5 or negative 5. Unit comes with a “QuckStart step by step Guide which is so easy to follow. The ball lock connects are so secure and match what is generally used by brewers.

Control of the pour is now available and I did not find it necessary to discard any initial frothing which apparently was advised in a previous video.

One great thing to brag about is I was informed that my first pour was the first done by non Coopers/BrewArt employee. 

It is a great upgrade and I’ll be incorporating it in with my current brewing.

photos show various pours over about 10days, the second one being the first pour.

 

is there a slight air leak in the keg on the right?

I recall being told that whenever the liner inflates to press against the keg wall like that, that it is usually the sign of a leak somewhere. 

[Captain 3 Droids]

Yes plus the two kegs and I’m a bit embarrassed about it but wow. Not that anybody is questioning it but my appraisal of the kegging set up and BrewFlo unit is as I generally see it. The unit has the ability to correct carbonation and head issues however within limits like any other system. Get the carbonation right and it’s a breeze. I’m going to purchase a few kegs as it certainly has its place here. 
If I didn’t have my current system would I buy it, yes I would particularly considering room, cleaning, it being mobile, and keg weight in comparison with the SS 10l kegs.

[Captain 3 Droids]

10 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

is there a slight air leak in the keg on the right?

I recall being told that whenever the liner inflates to press against the keg wall like that, that it is usually the sign of a leak somewhere. 

No, no leakage at all. If anything I think it may have a bit more than 5l. But both sealed. They were nearing the 2 weeks of carbonation.

[Captain 3 Droids]

17 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

No, no leakage at all. If anything I think it may have a bit more than 5l. But both sealed. They were nearing the 2 weeks of carbonation.

Actually I now think it may be the left hand one didn’t quite have 5 litres as the two kegs carbonating now are firm like the one on the right. Perhaps it is because the bags are locked in position and don’t twist that it is an even, smooth fill.

@Dustin Frothman

 

[Dustin Frothman]

2 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

Actually I now think it may be the left hand one didn’t quite have 5 litres as the two kegs carbonating now are firm like the one on the right. Perhaps it is because the bags are locked in position and don’t twist that it is an even, smooth fill.

@Dustin Frothman

 

That's not how Liam described it to me.

I was told that if there's a leak anywhere then you'll have gas escaping under pressure and this will force the foil liner against the outer keg wall, giving that smooth solid appearance. I understand that even when full and carbonated the liner should look soft and wrinkled like the one on the left.

Have you consumed the keg on the right yet? If so, did it need more control using the FloCon or the pressure adjustment on the pump?

Anyway, I'm not picking your experience apart, I'm just interested. Thanks for describing your testing and providing some photos. I just didn't expect to see a beer kegged with the new design looking exactly like the problem kegs I'd personally experienced with the old one.

[Captain 3 Droids]

9 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

Have you consumed the keg on the right yet? If so, did it need more control using the FloCon or the pressure adjustment on the pump?

Yes, they were the first two trialled. The “firm” keg was the first one in, no adjustments required.

These are on the 4th day of carbonation.

[Captain 3 Droids]

32 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

I was told that if there's a leak anywhere then you'll have gas escaping under pressure and this will force the foil liner against the outer keg wall, giving that smooth solid appearance. I understand that even when full and carbonated the liner should look soft and wrinkled like the one on the left.

You got me really thinking (that’s the great thing about brewing/forums) I’m no disputing what your saying I’m trying to work out how if gas is escaping it forces the liner against the outer wall. I would think that if the bag is punctured thus allowing gas to escape then beer should also escape and be between the bag and the wall. If the gas escapes to the outside then pressure would reduce inside the bag therefore I wouldn’t expect tightened of the bag against the wall.

 

 

 

[Dustin Frothman]

56 minutes ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

You got me really thinking (that’s the great thing about brewing/forums) I’m no disputing what your saying I’m trying to work out how if gas is escaping it forces the liner against the outer wall. I would think that if the bag is punctured thus allowing gas to escape then beer should also escape and be between the bag and the wall. If the gas escapes to the outside then pressure would reduce inside the bag therefore I wouldn’t expect tightened of the bag against the wall.

 

 

 

Yes it's got me thinking about it too ... and I should probably know a little bit about atmospheric pressure but I'm struggling today.

You've got an area of high pressure within the liner and low pressure outside it. If everything is equal and there's no leaks then the bag should be held in check within the keg (i.e. it shouldn't inflate). But if the pressure escapes somewhere then the two forces attempt to equalise and the bag is pushed to the extremities of its container.

I think ...

In the old kegging system when this happened a component would eventually fail and beer would escape; usually past a junction or seal. For a period there when the liner quality was in question the bag itself would just fail and burst.

Anyway, perhaps someone more qualified or with more time to think through this scenario can explain it accurately.

I'll stick to pulling back to go up and pushing forward to go down. 😆

 

[Captain 3 Droids]

3 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

'll stick to pulling back to go up and pushing forward to go down. 😆

😂

[Captain 3 Droids]

8 minutes ago, Dustin Frothman said:

But if the pressure escapes somewhere then the two forces attempt to equalise and the bag is pushed to the extremities of its container.

I love these problems. Now if the air within the keg can’t escape then the bag will not fill with beer. But I’ve looked at the the filling disc and it has a hole so as the keg fills the air in the keg is forced out. This means the bag expands with the force of liquid. So we have a keg with basically no air and an expanded bag. 
We then add a primer and carbonate, pressure inside the bag increases so causing pressure against the wall of the keg. 
 

Now Dustin when on auto pilot, think this through as it must be solved.
 

[Pursya]

On 28/7/2022 at 10:24 PM, Captain 3 Droids said:

Thousands of users? There are also a number of users that believe the system/unit is great. The failure of a perfect pour is not necessarily always the unit. The cleanliness of the glass, the angle, the filling of the keg to the amount of primer used (the system works on 5l, if less then the brew can be over carbonated, if more can be flat.), fermentation fully completed, if not over carbonation, how long at maturity/carbonation before using?

I’m sorry but people have/do get the perfect pour.

I’ve been using the system since 2016.

The brewflow has been replaced twice due to failures. My first Droid failed in the first 6 hours.

I have had failures from beerlines blowing, from flows freezing beer, from liner failure (constantly). I believe I have done everything, followed every instruction from Liam, and yet I think I’ve achieved at best 40% perfect pour.

The latest major upgrade is an admission that the original design/system/hardware was a failure.

The failure by BrewArt to even offer long suffering users a discount on upgrades is a major failure from a company that has in the past put users before profit.

[Captain 3 Droids]

8 hours ago, Pursya said:

The brewflow has been replaced twice due to failures. My first Droid failed in the first 6 hours.

I’m sorry you haven’t had a successful run with the BrewFlo systems. Perhaps you need to discuss your frustrations with BrewArt?

[Benoz]

6 hours ago, Captain 3 Droids said:

I’m sorry you haven’t had a successful run with the BrewFlo systems. Perhaps you need to discuss your frustrations with BrewArt?

It sounds like he did discuss it with brewart and to be fair if BrewFlo had worked BrewFlo V2 wouldn't be necessary.

 

I rate the hell out of Liam, brewart and the droids. I even like most things about the Flo's but the keg caps didn't work and needed an upgrade. I imagine an upgrade kit for old flo's could be in the works (hopefully!) If that happens I don't think it would be unreasonable to get replacement keg caps offered at close to cost. Maybe they already are. I don't know.

[Dustin Frothman]

22 hours ago, Pursya said:

I have had failures from beerlines blowing, from flows freezing beer, from liner failure (constantly). I believe I have done everything, followed every instruction from Liam, and yet I think I’ve achieved at best 40% perfect pour.

This is a fair summary. I experienced the same issues and documented many of them on here.

Since switching to ss corny kegs and a kegerator I’ve had no problems whatsoever. None. But this is a not a solution, it was my choice and I had the means and motivation to do so. There would be plenty of customers, particularly now, that don’t have the ability to go out and buy another system and/or pay to retrofit their BrewFlo V1.

There’s a balance to be found between going after the manufacturer for a product failing and finding a workable solution. The first step is starting a dialogue. 

I’d suggest anyone feeling aggrieved should contact BrewArt and ask the question. You may be pleasantly surprised at the response you receive.

[Anthony Dalton]

Yeah! Spot on Dustin. I like most have had issues with the V1 kegging system, but have stuck with it. I personally prefer the kegs over bottles. Throughout the course Liam and the Brewart team have been extremely accommodating. Over the last couple of months I check and double check the seals to my kegs prior to filling them. The slighest leak and I just chuck them out. Yes, it's a bit of a pain the arse, but the 15 minutes I spend doing that has reduced issues significantly, and there have been no dramas getting replacements.

I will certainly be investing in the new Brewflo within the next twelve months, but like you say rather than spitting the dummy at Brewart, I just try and work around the issues I know may crop up. Realistically from my perspective the rewards still outweigh the odd negative that presents itself